Fer-A-Lite

Discussion in 'Materials' started by darr, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    OH, i see. You're saying because you own a boat made from FC/FAL, the material properties have changed from that given anywhere else and hence not reliable? Thus we are unable to determine what the real strength is....hmmm....:confused:
     
  2. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    This thread is full of promotional material from you. You have unfortunately proven yourself completely ignorant of the mechanics of materials. In fact you don't appear to even have an inkling of what you don't understand.

    Maybe you'd be better asking questions and learning that blustering like a schoolboy caught in an embarrassing situation.





    There's enough data to compare and condemn your claims, There's other data that will probably damn rather than promote the material further. It's certainly essential information required to design with the material.

    Most people here would see the irony in that You are promoting the material as the bees knees, while insisting at the same time that it's not you who needs to provide the data. Instead we have to disprove your claims.:rolleyes:


    As for your bit of misinformation at the end of that post:
    So far in this thread I posted the following material wrt your comment above, I'm very happy to repeat that in any court of law:



    That's not what you are inferring.

    In fact many of your posts are full of misinformation, distortion and downright ignorance. This isn't a religion you are selling it's an engineering composite. You are trying to sell it to professionals.

    Get your facts in order, ask questions and learn. Maybe there is a good application for the product. So far I can't see that large boat building is it's best application.
     
  3. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Exactly.

    Every product has an application, somewhere. It is clear that he is desperate to find a market to promote his product, but failing on every count, so far, with regards to large boats.
     
  4. darr
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    darr Open Minded

    Mike,

    Here's a good example of what happens in that 25% and below range.

    Note the obvious lack of reinforcement.

    And I would have to estimate that the FAL hull we have is around the 40% mark. Have not opened up the FC hull to see.

    I will have to go back and calculate the rated % based on the wireplank method. That is where we came up with the steel ratio. Granted harder to achieve with mesh, but doable.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. darr
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    darr Open Minded

    See,

    Here is a prime example of a misconception.

    I am not desperate for a market, and I have not been trying to promote the product. You really should go back and read all the thread in regards to this, I had this discussion with someone else already.

    Whether I sell another bag of material to build a boat I could care less. I have a niche market for the repair of FAL and FC boats. Soon I will find my little boat yard in some small developing tropical country and quit chasing technology and fix those boats that no one else wants to work with.

    Our target market is actually using it as a sheathing to extend the life of failing wood hulls, but we can save that for another thread.

    What I am trying to do is not have people without first hand experience and considered professionals from making unproven statements.

    Secondly, not sure what you define as large boats, since the biggest FAL boat I am aware of is 70'.

    What you all fail to see is the fact that regardless of your comments on its unsuitability there are a number of examples that disprove your conjectures.

    And to date only 1 that can be used as a bad example whether it be builder or material. And the repeated usage of it is actually kind of comical, because it shows the desperation to show a bad example.

    The numbers still point to success and not failure in its usage.

    Given time, I am sure I will run across the rest of them. With digging around in regards to the Gitana, I found additional information on another C-Bird in FAL and I have current contact info., I had forgotten the correspondance with the owners granddaughter, so the list has just increased again.
     
  6. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    First proof:
    you are using polyester. That is a material insufficient to provide a watertight "shell" as you call it.

    Next, last and final proof that it is not worth talking a single word about this stuff or FC you find here:

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/materials/fer-lite-34473-2.html#post395444

    the value of the finished hull / boat, will be close to zero.

    Who needs to discuss material properties?
     
  7. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    See my comments above. The rest of the drivel is not worth my notes. and do not forget:

     
  8. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Hmmm..ok, let’s look at that statement, you are not promoting this product. Which by definition means you are must be stating just facts about the product rather than personal inferences and recommendations:

    Funny loads of pronouns…doesn’t sound very factual to me. Sounds like a sales pitch!

    Ah yes, there it is. In case I couldn’t follow the personal evidence of its suitability and to dismiss any claims against your personal recommendations.
     
  9. darr
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    darr Open Minded

    Careful,

    Daniel will get upset if we bring out the maul story again.
     
  10. darr
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    darr Open Minded

    Yes, this started because I offered it in an open forum that was asking about hull materials.

    Don't think that really consititutes promoting it.

    But I guess it must have been, since this thread started, I have sold and shipped several orders equating to over 1.5 units.

    I have pending orders for two more units, I have to order in more raw material.
     
  11. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I've intentionally let this thread take it's natural course. I did so because of my calling this poster a self promoting thread starter, in previous posts. Far be it for me to suggest he buy advertising, but it now does clearly seem that not only has he failed to provide a reasonable assessment of his product's physically attributes, but that others are also finding this more an outlet for self promotion.

    My understanding of this is Palmer has purchased the rights to this product and is now marketing it. He's done similar in previous business adventures and I've previously insinuated he stick with his day job, but apparently a regular avenue of advertising pursuit, by his own admission, isn't cost effective at this point of the venture so he posts here.

    "Honest I'm not trying to plug 'Ferret-Light', though I do think is a good product". "I can't explain with reasonable accuracy why I think 'Ferret-Light' is a good product, but it is." "Has any one used 'Ferret-Light'?" "Has any one heard of 'Ferret-Light'?"

    This is classically cheap form of self promotion and no one is getting fooled any more. Spend the money and have the product tested. Yea, it's expensive, but so are the lives of the soles that will be trusting it, in a gale off a rocky shore. It's part of the process, so is traditional advertising. Hell, the last time I saw your web site, is was years since it was upgraded, so maybe this is a place to start.
     
  12. SportyDog
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    SportyDog Junior Member

    Mr. PAR you claim to be a Yacht Designer & Builder?? Just what have you designed or built? I have lived in Florida for 35 years I was a marine dealer for many years, since I delt in Power and Sail I should probably have read or have ar least seen one of your desigsn. Could you please enlighten me? Maybe our paths have crossed. Regards
     
  13. darr
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    darr Open Minded

    For my current stated business needs it is still not cost effective, I am not actively marketing the material to build boats. The economy is still in a recovery mode. Even when it is other than a line of small boats I have no desire to get in the building business.

    Even when another professional from the boating industry that built his boat and owned it for 35 years gave first hand experience with it, the thread ignored his input, because as Richard stated you all have a preconceived opinion, in other words biased.

    Once again, other than the original post regarding the hull material for the ultimate dream boat I have not promoted the product unless I was responding to a question or a misconception by one of the learned types on here.

    And besides who on this forum would I be marketing to? None of you are in the market for ferro type boat, and since you are obviously biased in your opinion there is no networking value, in other words you are not going to refer it to a friend.

    Or do you think the penetration I would have with the general boat building public would be that great from this site.

    I think you all are too full of yourselves.

    But I will see what it costs to advertise on here tomorrow.
     
  14. darr
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    darr Open Minded

    So buying a set of plans for that 14' you have is probably out of the question?
     

  15. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member


    You are joking. You quite happily wrote that the steel is 50% by volume in a 1 inch thick panel.

    You have never calculated anything. You are not going to get anywhere unless you lift your game. Your own claims that you are a fantastically trained technical wizz who can see the bigger picture is a very poor pretense.

    I think you are very close to having represented yourself as a con artist here. Possibly through your own ignorance.


    Again you claim it a proven product and yet by your own admission you cannot account for 70% of the Ferralight boats built 25 or so years ago. Then you say that only one has had a problem:rolleyes:

    As for sheathing wooden hulls, you have no surviving vessels that were so treated if I understand you correctly, no data on how effective it was. So that's not proven either is it ! All you have is enecdote so far and a promise that the folks who treated their boats that way 30 years or so back will say how they found it at some time, maybe.

    And yes I think we all have liability insurance not that you'd manage to get anything after what you have written. Your protagonists are are protected by law if what they say is true. No matter how much it damages your market, or makes you look a fool.

    So perhaps you should start again step out of your belief system and actually start to list the cons along with the maybe pros of this not so wonder material.

    For example how did tugboat get the message so wrong from you about the material properties ? It's weaker than anything else he was considering, and that's on the known figures.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2010
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