TP52s

Scary. The notion that spagetto purports expertise in fuzzy logic is frightening. How could anyone so ignorant about the simple basics of sailing remotely understand the math of fuzzy logic?

 

It was in This Message Thread on Sailing Anarchy.
I actually adapted it from the image below.



[RAMBLE]
I feel a little bad about denigrating the Mac26...
I have a very close friend who owns one.
I tried to steer him towards an older sailboat,
but he was uneasy about buying used and ending up
with something with major structural problems... and
the motorsailer idea appealed to him. I think the dealer
convinced him that the M26 would be a good first boat...
a way to learn about sailing without commiting to a
dedicated sailboat... sort of a way to sample both
worlds without committing fully to one.

These decisions are often made more based on emotion
than logic. We get all worked up about something at start
jonesing for it, and then it's not hard to come up with logic
to justify it as the best decision.

I was afraid if I pressed my friend too hard he would be
offended, so I tried to guide him towards a used boat.
I hoped to at least persuade him to buy a used M26
if I couldn't get him away from the motorsailer fixation.
At least he was aware that it was a compromise...
he knew that anything that tries to do two opposite
things is not going to be great at either one.

I should have pointed out that if you buy a used sailboat for
$5000, and it is a basket case, you could lose $5000...
but assuming you could get $1000 for it, $4000 is a
realistic worst case.

If you buy a brand new $25,000 boat, the moment you hitch
the trailer to your tow vehicle you have lost $5000. No risk,
it's a guaranteed loss.

He now has found that his wife isn't as enamoured with
sailing as they'd expected, and is going to sell it. He may
move down to a smaller boat, or just go racing with me
on the Friday night "Six-Pack" races.

I've been trying to get him a ride on one of the
Synergy 1000's I crew on, but he is not equipped for
foul weather, and not quite ready to invest in foul
weather gear and othe winter gear this season
(his job situation is unstable, so he's being prudent
about unnecessary spending for awhile). In summer
he'll probably go... though he is probably a bit
intimidated about crewing on a high tech boat with
fairly high caliber sailors... he doesn't have a lot
of experinece yet, and probably doesn't want to look
dumb (no one does). He'll eventually go, but probably
will feel more comfortable about it after a few less
formal races aboard my boat.

He does handle himself well on the water. We were out
in a building wind that got up to about 30 kts in the gusts,
and he was only a little worried, but not scared or panicked.
It was definitely a handful for just two of us. But we made
it safely with only a bit of sailorly language and a few
bruises. He'll be good crew with a bit more experience,
and he catches on very fast, so I'm looking forward to
racing my own boat once in awhile... if I can ever haul it
out and do the bottom and do all of the severely
neglected maintenance work (e.g. my spinnaker winches
are frozen up solid and need to be rebuilt).

Fortuanately, I've been working on boats almost all of
my life, so I can do it all myself if I can find the time.
[/RAMBLE]

 

Thanks Mark. In the first one I saw, the first part said "Winning an argument on the internet is like getting a gold medal ..." etc.

 

That would be post #117 in this message (the one you're currently in) thread:

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?p=33774

Found an ironic tidbit on Mightto's website... (Read question "b")

http://www.eskimo.com/~mighetto/lsquest.htm#question_b%20:

 

Definition of Irresponsible:



Brakes & load on one axle, if the brakes fail (which is common)
do you think that car will stop that much towed load?

For MacGregor to show this picture in its advertisement is
irresponsible and dishonest.

 

From the MacGregor website:

If the valve or vent plug is open, even slightly, the motion of the boat can drain
the ballast water from the tank or allow the boat to fill with water. If either the
vent plug or the filling valve is open, ballast can be lost when the boat leans over.
You might think that the tank is full, and that the boat is self righting, but you
may be unpleasantly surprised by an unexpected capsize. If the transom valve
is left open, or partially open, the forward motion of the boat can drain the tank.

IF THE CABIN OF THE BOAT IS ENTIRELY FILLED WITH WATER, AND THE
BOAT IS DEPENDENT ON THE FOAM FLOTATION TO KEEP IT AFLOAT, IT WILL
BE VERY UNSTABLE, AND MAY TURN UPSIDE DOWN.

 

Well I finally understand why Frank has gone MIA - since now there are 27 TP52's for the 2005 season. Sadly the fleet will lose Esmeralda and Bright Star this year (may they both return soon) - both boats have been sold (Now Bambaku & Pegasus).

FM must be fuming after the race to Mo Bay - the conditions on that race disprove everyone of his silly claims about the supposed shortcomings of the TP52's. Average of over 11 kts on the course (more actual over covered distance) top speeds in the low to mid 20's with sail conditions ranging from JT's and reef to full mains and A2's. Over the line 2,3,4,5,6 Not to bad!

Or it may be that he is finally looking at his erroneous math and re-evaluating his "facts", half truths and lies .....

 

He was talking about going on an extended cruise...
Galapagos I think (I'll find out for sure when I have some time)

 

Yup It was Galapagos.

 

Sounds like a cry for help. There are only 14 TP52s in the water. The crafty display of 27 TP52s (is it that high?) on the official web site is pathetic. Seriously click on each link and do your own research. Lets see 27 is just about 2 times the truth. so 14 is say --- HOW IS THAT FOR A HALF TRUTH. Now tell me this isn't fun Lets wait till May to count our TP52s OK? I suspect the first 11 to be up for sale even today.

I wish to take this time to invite all to visit Murrelet on J dock Friday and prior to race start. We will be the boat flying the Sailing Anarchy burgee proudly - and no - not upside down like my competitors say I do - that is lies. I have to much respect for Sailing Anarchists. Once a sailing anarchist always a sailing anarchist in spite of paid-for-content. At least the owner of Sailing Anarchy has notified readers with an add of the connection. It is my understanding that he is not paid for that add. The add and link are ethically derived rather than financial in other words. There to let readers know who pays the bills.

Now please no taking the flag as a trophy while we party at Tugboat's and eat at OYC, where you can also catch us. Think of this as a test. Sure - you could take the burgee, but you dishoner the flag by doing so. Come by and see if I am the Devil my adversaries make me out to be.

Hey excellent discussion about centerboard use today. SeaDrive has my thumbs up. And FranksaDork sails 505s. I just have to shut up and listen more when I see that kind of thing.

 

I'm sure Scott is thrilled that you're associating your ramblings with SA by flying that burgee.

 

Scott owns his own vessel and should not be Tripping But a bit of history: it was at my suggestion that the SA burgee was developed. I am also known as Mr. Anarchy. Scott purchased an initial batch. My wife and I were presented the trophy burgee by folks at Richmond Point Yacht Club owing to a challenge for the crew of Murrelet and for Tripp Gal to ride a racing sailboat - an I-14. I do not understand how Tripp Gal could have turned that down. Anyway, we showed, she didn't, and the trophy was ours by default. Scott surprised me by bustin my chops about the photos the other day. But thanks for reminding me that there is more discussion needed on butocks. Hopefully Scott will be flying the above burgees Friday as well. Proud Flags of The Society and Sailing Anarchy. It would be a thrill to see a TP52. But they likely would do poorly in this Toliva Shoal race. Lighter vessels are usually favored. Is there a boatdesign.net burgee?

 

That's funny, on SA you're known as "He Who Shall Not Be Named." Must give you a real warm fuzzy feeling, eh?

 

Frank doesn't even know who Scott is. By my count, he's talking about at least 2, but I think actually 3 Scotts in his post above.

Frank, you are a friggin douche bag.

You are despised by all. Not all perhaps... every now and then someone emerges to timidly defend your right to express your lunacy, or to defend the Mac26x (which should probably count as an innocent victim in all this). But let's take a quick survey: The Mac26x site is roughly split fer and agin; SA has at least two dozen people who seriously hate you versus 2 or 3 who have chimed in to defend either you or the boat; the British site was 100% in favor of tossing you into the Thames and holding your head underwater; and on this site, among two threads, one single person has questioned some of the arguments against you among the dozens who have made those arguments. Then there are the powers that be on the SSSS bulletin board who took it upon themselves to close the site down rather than let you continue to stir things up. So I would say that you are, if not despised by all, at the very least universally despised.

Your spelling and grammar are so horrible that it's hard to believe you didn't recently immigrate from some backwater country (apologies to all immigrants everywhere...) and you make no attempt to improve (unlike most immigrants...).

Then there is the technical content of your arguments. Virtually every single one has met with disagreement from multiple angles, and yet you make them over and over again. You simply do not learn in spite of your claim otherwise. You don't know what planing is, you don't know what a gybing centerboard is supposed to do, you don't know how a lifting foil works, you don't know what moveable water ballast is, you don't understand the physics of heeling and righting, you don't know what cod's head/mackerel tail refers to, you don't know what sailing across an ocean is like, and the list goes on and on and on. Yet you persist in stating your absurd opinions in all these things and more in spite of the contradictions you encounter from true experts in these fields.

So I conclude that you are a complete and utter douche bag with no redeeming value what so ever. Your only hope of salvation is to go far away and kill yourself in as horrible a manner as possible. If you decide to do that, I thank you deeply and sincerely. If not, which is obviously the more likely case, all I can say is that I have tried. I wish you a rotten, painful life. So long.

 

Oh there is only 1 of me(Thank God) and Frank knows who I am. I'm the evil one who also races on Tripp_Gal's boat. (Who along with her husband are very nice and giving person and who has taught me alot about the sailing game) I even let Frank crew on my boat for one race. I thought it might encourage him to get out and race. Problem is I think I scared him with a certain collision during the start with a 40 foot boat.