Origami steel yacht construction

Daniel,
the last thing I want to do is to defend BS, but that doesn't give you the right to post misinformation either. I don't know whether you are misinformed or did it deliberately, but BS does not charge "several thousand dollars" for his "plans" as you state! I bought the "plans" for BS' 36 ft in January for $ 350.- (Canadian) and, as far as I know, he sells the plans for his 40 ' for $ 500.-.

I second that part of your statement.

Regards

Walter

 

Over the past couple years, I show that you gave him 4 negative "post feedback" comments which due to your post count, reputation, and time here resulted in -41 points. You have a bit more force than others due to those factors, but still if a dozen other established members felt the same and used the reputation system his posting would be restricted now. (That system is designed to keep any one user from giving too much + or - rep to any other user in a short timeframe to try and keep people in general from being vindictive, so it would take a number of members finding a person dangerous or objectionable enough to post negative rep on the posts in question.) With the number of people who logon every day, is requiring a dozen to give 4 of his posts each negative rep over the course of the time period (since 2006) too high a threshold for banning someone permanently?

 

I haven't been here very long and I would be reluctant to see Brent banned because some of what he has to say is useful. However, he denigrates anyone who disagrees with him regardless of fact, he cannot or will not answer very simple and straightforward questions about basic design and safety issues and he continually exaggerates to the point of lying about his expertise and qualifications, including the number of boats he has built. He has been called on these points but simply doesn't respond to the questions.

A case in point is his claim to have built over 30 boats. That's one per year or better since he built his own. Compare this with the statement that he only works one month per year. How can you build a boat from plans on paper to launching complete with interior, water, electrical and fuel systems, and rig, in a month? It can't be done IMO and unless he can substantiate such a claim he shouldn't be allowed to keep making it. That's why I've called him on it. He gives people a false impression of his skill and expertise when all he has actually done is tack hulls together and leave the rest to the owner. That IMO is NOT building a boat.

Another example is claiming that a Van De Stadt 34' hull is an origami hull. You need to totally redefine the term origami to make this claim. It's nonsense.

There are a lot of other examples, cf the locked transverse framing thread.

PDW

 

Pretty much the same thing that I suggested in post #874, magwas. Unfortunately, self-policing doesn't work & I'm sure that Jeff has a life outside of these forums & doesn't want to have to read every last thread, each day.

As far as rudeness toward Brent is concerned, over several years, I tried to suggest things to him in a polite, passive manner and was often responded to as if I knew nothing or as though my suggestions were patently unreasonable, even foolish. Without entering into a discussion on Alex Christie's boat, suffice to say that when I viewed the boat I realized that I had put up with a lot of rudeness from someone who wasn't as he portrayed himself to be. For this reason alone, I can understand that professional designers and builders become angry with someone who does not have their level of abilities, yet, calls them names & insults them. Why would it bother you if they respond in a similar fashion? (Some do, some don't)

Final thought:
There is at least one internet group that is entirely dedicated to the discussion of Brent's designs. Anybody who wishes to buy plans or discuss building one can go there and be welcomed by all. Isn't that enough?

 

That's great, but I live in Iceland which is an island unlike Norway which is a part of the European continent and incidentally we have a higher percentage of fluent English speakers than Canada (try visiting Northern Quebec). I'm glad icing is not an issue where you choose to cruise but as you point out some people that build origami might want to cruise in the north or south.

For others following this thread or which might stumble upon this thread in the future here is a basic diagram showing what we are asking BS for and four simple values which need to be known for any vessel for it to be considered safe. The values given are general guidelines for boats under 15m (50ft) LOA



GM shall exceed 0.35m
The largest righting arm (GZmax) shall be at an angle of more than 25°
The righting arm GZ shall be at least 0.2m at 30°
GZ shall be positive to at least 70°

From his response I can only venture a guess that BS did not know the difference between GM and GZ

Jarl
http://dallur.com

Post edited to correct typos.

 

This not the answer to my question and you know it.
By the way you wrong GM is not GZ. The GM do not varies with the angle of heel.
You even didn't know the meaning of GM and you scramble to open a book to try to know what it means. And you are at the wrong page. No luck.
But for giving the GM you need to give the whole calculation.
I ask for numbers with the calculations backing them.
YOU CAN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION
So you mislead your customers since you don not know what you sell.
Since you stated that your boat are the only one valid in all the steel boat, Colvin included, not only your are a liar, since you can't state why the Colvin are not as good as yours, since you whole posts are about the fact you are the best designer in the world, since you find any naval architect is overcharging clients,
YOU SHOULD BY YOURSELF AND AFTER WRITTING A LONG APOLIGISE LEAVE THE FORUM, SINCE YOU BASE YOUR PRESENCE ON THE FACTS METIONNED ABOVE.
I have nothing but deep disgust to be in company of such a man who tear down Naval Architecture with shear ignorance, acting by jalousie, anger, personal vindictive against the professional and fear to loose his followers.
It is just a question of ego, and Brent you put you ego before the the safety of your customer. You are therefore a fraud and a danger, and should no be allowed to sell plans.
Enough said about this man.
I wish I can post on steel boat without having this character giving me negative for personal reason. But obviously it is impossible.
The origami thread can have been a good thread, but it will never be, and every good posting lost between countless rambling of Brent.
I am not impress.
Daniel

 

A typical Brent rambling to flood the thread and avoid to answer the question about GM, and by itself a quite disturbing statement

Brent when your customer are drawning thanks to your ignorance you will send this statement to their widow?
I am serious, it is not a joke
Talk about hijacking a thread, pathetic

Daniel

 

Walter you are absolutely right. Perhaps I was trying to get back at him on pricing since several time he stated I over charged my customers, without any proof of course.
But you right, it put me at his level, and I don't want to go there believe me.
Thank you
Daniel

 

From your link

"The metacentric height (GM) is the distance between the center of gravity of a ship and its metacenter. ......

The metacenter is considered to be fixed for small angles of heel; however, at larger angles of heel the metacenter can no longer be considered fixed "

I am no expert, but if the metacenter can move, so must the GM ?

All info welcome.

 

I do not know, and do not bother, if that treshold is too high or not. That is not the point here Jeff.

(and thanks for the indiscretion, btw)

There is one argument against banning a member we cannot deny, the right to defend one self.

I did not see one post here in the past five years where BS defended his position with arguments or calcuations. Only anecdotes and attacks.

Given the fact that the barrier to ban should be as high as you like it, the solution "bearflag" came up with, should be choosen to restore the value of the metal boat Forum.

A lukewarm appeal to behave does not do it.

Regards
Richard

 

Sorry, since you were calling for banning this person with your public forum posts, I did not think you would be bothered - it did not seem a secret what you thought of him, but I should have asked. For someone who has caused such frustration to elicit a public forum post requesting someone be banned, 4 "post feedback" comments given on specific posts does not seem excessive over a multi-year span.

 

Definition of FORUM

1
a : the marketplace or public place of an ancient Roman city forming the center of judicial and public business
b : a public meeting place for open discussion
c : a medium (as a newspaper or online service) of open discussion or expression of ideas
2
: a judicial body or assembly : court
3
a : a public meeting or lecture involving audience discussion


I think we should discuss the ideas and not the person

Lots of people have a tendency to come to the aid of what they see as the underdog, I dare say Bs is seen by many as a martyr under attack by the vested interests



Expose the ideas and not attack the person

 

Daniel, the ability to admit being wrong makes all the difference between you and BS. My respects for that.
Walter

 

Watson the GM is fixed at o degree angle and change in accordance of a linear measurement depending of the load, therefore the waterline inertia, the displacemnet thus the metacenter itself and the center of gravity, in the same 0 degree line..
When it differs due to heel, we look at the GZ.
I know it is confusing since the name change depending the calculation involve.
We use the GM on the curve of stability, to trace a line from the GM to 57.29 degree (180 degree/PI) called coefficient of stability, to check the curve if it goes under or upper that line in small angle of heel.
We use the GM as a reference for weight assessment/stability, when the weight of the cargo change, since it affect G so it affect the value V so it affect the value I therefore affect the the value of GM.
But first you have to find the transverse metacenter BM which is the distance between the center of buoyancy and the metacenter
V displacement
G center of gravity
I moment inertia of the waterline about the centerline

I hope it help.
Daniel

 

But Watson it is not the point I asked to Brent.
To know the GM he has to have the full weight calculation, plus the full waterline inertia calculation.
He never ever provided that, but stated that I was not a naval architect in one of his post, and stated that every boat not designed by him are a waste of time and money (I make a short cut of his claim, perhaps not the exact words)
I have the right to challenge him. Since he put the thread on this level, as a professional, I expected him to answer on the same level.
HE NEVER ANSWERED AND JUST TRYED TO DIVERT THE THREAD BY STATING A VERY DANGEROUS NON SENCE.
Therefore been a danger, been wrong, been not able to design a boat, been a danger for people who bought his plan, and by is own doing he should go away from this forum.
Amateurs (are we are not all amateurs in the real sense of the term, from the Latin Amar, meaning Love and I am a lover of boat like certainly all of us in this forum) are the most welcome, and I LEARN from them, yes I learn every day from all of you.
But crooks who use the forum to sell a book and plans are a danger for the boat society.
Disguising the marketing behind a wall of lie is not what we expect.
I consider and its proven that Bren Swain is a crook and a fake.
I challenged him, he had all the time to respond, he never did.
I don't see what he bring to the forum beside lies and innuendo.
I never ever tried to sell ONE plan, or to tell people what to do EVER.
I have the greatest respect for all of you, but a bad apple came, and yes I lost my temper with some of you, even with Jeff, and I publicly apologize for that and especially to Jeff, which after all we are his guest. I forget that for a while. Being in disagreement with him, didn't authorise me to have been rude, which I felt I was.
I don't lost my temper anymore with Brent, since no lost temper is necessary against him.
Just asking ONE question he can't answer.

Daniel