Incredible "Secrets of Yacht Design" website located...

Thanks for the link Frank. I see your fellow Mac owners think you are an idiot too.

Don't you feel better now?

 

Frankofile: Be fair - your second quote is wrong! Let Frank do the misquoting himself!

 

Please it's obvious from the posts, that Frankie knows everything. Please if we just sit and listen (ie don't reply), then we can all just enjoy his greatness.

 

Oh, allright sorenfdk, it's more accurate now. But I'm sure Frankie gets the joke. He has a wonderful sense of humor, besides being a genious yacht designer and captivating story teller. Not to mention being one of the great mariners of our time.

 

Yeah - what do we need great minds like Newton, Bernoulli, Einstein, Bohr, Hans Christian Andersen etc. for?
We have them all combined in one: Frank Mighetto!

 

[D'ARTOIS]

According to the owners directory (mcgregorowners.com) neither Murrelet nor Mighetto are listed as boatname/owner.

Try it now. The database has been updated.

Gimcrack is not a yankee slang word, but common English from the past centuries for a shiny and useless thing.

I suspect the word will be applied more regularly. Especially to TP52s and other long fixed fin with bulb craft. Perhaps if another TP52 is ever built her owner will name her Gimcrack. That would be a hoot. I stated that Gimcrack was a 52 footer. She may have been a foot smaller. 49 on the waterline and 13 feet six inch beam.

Gimcrack was built out of the Brooklyn Navy Yard. You have to recognize that at this time the US was the dominant builder of sailing craft in the world, probably owing to the lumber.

Yankee built meant quality at that time. Howard Chapelle, author of The History of American Sailing Ships in 1935 considered the word Yankee slang. Of course we all know about Found Under Carnal Knowledge being a British term. Not Yankee Slang.

USS Onkahye served for a short period as a yacht, after that she was commissioned because of her speed as a pursuer of "slavers". In that, she showed very successful. She went everywhere over the Caraibic and South America. Nowhere remarks as being unseaworthy or so.

Chapelle notes that she was of an unorthodox form. 90 feet on the waterline, 96 overall, large centerboard. In her deep-water cruises she was found to be a good sea-boat but a very hard roller; on one occasion she actually rolled her masts out and had to be towed home. Stevens tried out many ingenious ideas on the vessel, including the placing of much of her ballast outside in strips along her keel. The Navy removed the centerboard, added guns and cumbersome gear then considerd proper with the result that her sailing was much damaged. How was she successful as a pursuer of slavers? She was lost after about five years on Caicos Reef in the West Indies, on June 21, 1848, without loss of life.

The denigrating "tone" of your remark about Einstein, that he was a clerck at the Patent Office in Zurich, shows your incapability to understanding. Shortly after, he was assistent-professor.

I was paraphrasing from the URL. Your view of government employees must not be very high. The above denigrates them. In anycase I appologize. Einstein's notions on relativity were likely born from patent research is how I take it.

The notion about the ventury effect in a catamaran you have picked up from my reply to Duane's shape of floats some time ago. It has nothing to do with a curent topic and is like sand in the wind: incoherent. As the majority of your remarks.

I was unaware of your work on catamaran's. I have since reviewed it. Multihullism is a term that I use to describe where improvements in monohull design will come from that will allow them to sail 17 MPH as Roger MacGregor claims the Mac26x does. A big part of multihullism is the removal of weight. Onkabye is a beautiful Indian name meaning 'dancing feather'. But multihulls are also centerboarders. The dagger board is a form of centeboard. The notion that a cathedral hull, or any hull with a hollow, or a twin keel vessel might behave like a multihull even though she is a monohull is supported by your work. The behavior I am most interested in is speed. But there is also the safety of a vessel that when swamped does not sink. This multihullism is a big deal.

"Since 1935 there was a recognition......" By who?

Howard I. Chapelle, author of The History of American Sailing Ships The book was printed in 1935.

"In the 1950's British boatbuilders discovered........." Wrong. You mean Blondie Hassler's boat. That was 10 years later, in the early '60s.

I was referring to boats like Trekka.



Can you fill me in on Blondie Hassler's boat?

Reading the current issues regarding the steering malfunctions in the 26X may shine some other light on the accident with Martin.

You defend Martin? You really mean to defend Jim Teeters. Here is the logic. Teeters is a nice man who has devoted countess hours to the sport. He can not be a bad man who behaves in ways that look like his opinion can be bought or that he has vested interests to support at all cost. He would never do that kind of thing. So his choice to get involved defending a drunk with a prior fellony conviction who killed two children must be justified. The justification being that the Mac26x is at fault, the boat Martin just happened to be opperating like a war boat on the 4th of July. Seriously rockets were being fired from the bow hatch, while peeling off from moorage with a second boat. No one except Teeters thought the boat at fault and Taylor, an NA worthy of a lot a praise for standing against the Director of Research for US Sailing, that was Teeters, has testified that the boat can be operated safely, presumably with even 11 aboard. Taylor greatly helped the GP RWP in its support of movable ballast, by taking away arguments that likely would have been presented from the case. Taylor greatly helped all centerboard designers because a weighted centerboard is really a form of movable ballast.

Lets do address steering. The Mac26x has what Perry has called a gybing centerboard. This allows her to outpoint all boats that can be trailered (according to the manufacturer). If that board were down, the self gyping would cause steering issues. The board is not to be extended fully while motoring at WOT. I can report steering problems on Murrelet. This is a good argument for those who like tillers. In year five the steering cable parted and I could turn only one way - the way the cable would push. MacGregor used Moris for the steering mechanism on my vessel. That company is no longer in existence. The new Macs have rack and pinion steering, a better system. I may upgrade to that system in a few years. Right now parts are available. Anyway the jury rig that got me to harbor was to lift one of the two rudders, the lifted rudder then served as a tiller. Now tell me that isn't good design. Later I strapped a deck brush to the lifted ruder and motored an hour to Tom's outboard who had a replacement cable, all be it a bit longer. Other owners have sat on the outboard and used body movements to steer the vessel. Some have purchased the optional outboard tiller handles. The Mac26x is superior to most if not all sailboats in the regard to emergency steerage. For ocean going vessels you want the rudder controls visable from the deck. The Mac26m is less advanced than the Mac26x in part because rudder controls are visable only by going below decks.

Why are you not listed as a McGregor owner? Neither your boat's name is entered in the registry.

It is a big Internet. I have not been banned or anything like that.

 

I am not the first to present these notions. Roger Magregor put them into a vessel, the Mac26x. The Internet is an international public resource, developed by multiple countries desiring to foster freedom of expression. I have a right to present ideas. No one has the right to avoid being offended. This is however what the closed minded pretend. Your gripe is with Roger MacGregor or the GP RWP, or with lubbers who will never see sinkers superior to vessels that after being swamped still float.

 

Frank, did you say "lubbers"?

 

Skippy, I love your style. Review by the numbers. Are these the most offensive of my comments? Would they be less offensive from others? Lets elaborate.

#220
... boats that heel to much ... are to tender for motoring, anchoring, or even entertaining dockside, because of poor initial stability. ... excessive heeling ... discourages those new to the sport and makes the boat a poor cruising vessel because all accomodations are at an awkward angle when the wind carries.

comes from post #220, where I said.

This month, in the sailing magazines, there is recognition that IMS is dead. Even the owner of the last built non-TP52 IMS boat, a boat that betters all the TP52s, sees his vessel as a buggy wip, a useless thing, a Gimcrack now that the US has gone IRC to support this technology shift to movable ballast, and lighter materials. With that recognition is the halt of trends in sailboat design that I believe have contributed to the decline of the sailing sport in the US. We are talking trends to shorter head sails and boats that heel to much because under the IMS rules these vessels had rating advantage and boats that are to tender for motoring, anchoring, or even entertaining dockside, because of poor initial stability.

What is wrong with small head sails. Well, the head sail is the sail most likely in clear air. It makes sence owing to that for it to be a powerful sail. Also when the head sail is simply jib size, it can not wrap around stays which means poor pointing. Plus that trend ignores the greatest invention in modern times for sailing - roller furling which gives the sailor an easy way to maintain the vessel on optimum heel. What is wrong with excessive heeling? Well it discourages those new to the sport and makes the boat a poor cruising vessel because all accomodations are at an awkward angle when the wind carries.

I can add that Farr Designs is the source of the notion that IMS is the reason smaller head sails have been a trend in sailboat design in the last few years as well as boats whoes optimum heel is over 15 degrees. For reasons I do not pretend to understand, these two items represent loop holes in the box rules that when exploited by a designer generate a winning vessel in IMS races.

The Mac26m follows the trend. She is unable to untilize a Genoa on upwind points of sail when the wind is above high normal (say 15 or 17 MPH). She also is sailed on her ear, much further than a Mac26x in those winds, and this style is appealing to those who have been following IMS or have been US Sailing trained to think that looks correct.

 

#221
After the first day, below decks on any cruising sailboat is likely going to smell like puke. If it does not it may smell of diesel. No one outside of the most fatigued is going to want to "enjoy" the comfort there. And then they will be sleeping. If the crossing is several weeks the enjoyment is the same one might get in jail.

I had written:

Hi Jan. The Mac26x is a serious ocean sailboat. There are a couple of things to realize. First, no one outside of a race, will find any boat of any racing size on the ocean comfortable.

It took serious racers to make this point to me. In the modern age, boats are transported, not because it is dangerous to make a crossing, but because the cost of wear and tear on the yacht doesn't justify the "fun" of doing so.

After the first day, below decks on any cruising sailboat is likely going to smell like puke. If it does not it may smell of diesel. No one outside of the most fatigued is going to want to "enjoy" the comfort there. And then they will be sleeping. If the crossing is several weeks the enjoyment is the same one might get in jail.

So for the future, it is likely that boats that will be making ocean crossings will be more race boat like in the interior than house like. To ignore this ignores the availability of other modern tools besides boat transport like weather reporting.

Jan has since contacted me with the Idea that a 33 foot boat (the J100) should cost less than a Schock 40 because the Schock 40 is 7 feet longer. Let me rephrase. There should be no new designs of any monohull ocean going sailboat in the 30 to say 37 foot range. The J100 would be one of those vessels that in my view is limited to protected lake use only. The Schock 40, when crewed properly, is at least capable of sailing out of harms way when weather reports indicate that is a good idea. She is likely also able to motor out of harms way in those conditions but her engine is to modest to assume that the vessel can reach hull speed in a chop.

Let me add that professional sailors make 15,000 to 30,000 PER MONTH. Now tell me that isn't fun.

 

#250
Your gripe is with Roger MacGregor or the GP RWP, or with lubbers who will never see sinkers superior to vessels that after being swamped still float.

I wrote

I am not the first to present these notions. Roger Magregor put them into a vessel, the Mac26x. The Internet is an international public resource, developed by multiple countries desiring to foster freedom of expression. I have a right to present ideas. No one has the right to avoid being offended. This is however what the closed minded pretend. Your gripe is with Roger MacGregor or the GP RWP, or with lubbers who will never see sinkers superior to vessels that after being swamped still float.

If you are new to the sea then the term lubber as in "land lubber" or "land lover" may not be known to you. You may also not be aware of the battle multihullers have had getting the right to race PHRF or against any monohull really. In this battle the multihull owners were all labled "Mr Dangerous" because when a multihull is capsized - and all boats can capsize - they usually can not be righted unassisted by another boat. The offending refrain has been "well at least my sh*t floats when swamped". The year before last a multi did flip durring the Van Isl 360 race, a race now 4 years old that is gaining international attention. Rather than risk a night resque, the crew put on wet suits and waited for daylight. They were not harmed by this and the vessel was recovered intact. I think this proved something. Something about safety. But two years later, I still hear about it and then the claim that multihulls are dangerous and should be banned from ocean racing because they capsize and can not be righted. Jim Teeters failed to gain the sympathy of the jury and the judge because they think like lubbers. This ability to float is a big deal. Capsize is an event that can happen in any boat given sufficient sea conditions.

The Barnegat Bay A Cats race for the oldest perpetual trophy in the United States. Since 1871 these 28 footers have extended their centerboards and risked capsize. The class deserved more than the weight of Jim Teeter's style research. Jim Teeters sees weight as the critical factor in avoiding a capsize. 80 years of racing those A Cats has shown otherwise. The critical factor is crew. Crew that knows when to reef, when to extend the centerboard, when to retract and when to call it a day. Teeters likely attacked the A Cats for the same reason as the Mac26x, only the A Cat advocates did not have a judge and jury to point out the nonesence. Teeters and those supporting the TP52 had already drawn out 30 foot fixed keel boats that were to be the next big racing thing in US sailing. I connect the dots and offend Teeter supporters with a notion that we are a forgiving nation. Get out of the way, there is much to be excited about. US Sailing has reorganized. Soon American centerboarders will be retracting the foils as the designers intended in PHRF races, gaining the advantage over fixed keel vessels long known to have been possessed by them.

 

I am great in monolog mode! Tradition does encourage posters to chime in now, however. Who will hit the 5,000 view mark? The countdown has started. Has any thread in the history of boat design.net been viewed so much in such a short period of time? And by so few Macgregor Yacht owners? The minions haven't even been called. Huzzah Huzzah, keep the comments coming by email, if not by a post. mighetto@eskimo.com

 

Hey did someone hack the view counter again. Lets start a petition

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/create.html

Stuck on 4978, how is this rat going to get his food pellet?

 

What does a Mac want to be when it grows up, and is fit to go to sea?

 

What happens if you bolt two M26 carcasses together to form a cat? How about 3, with one slightly forward in the middle, is this a tri like the one Ellen is using?