forcing trees and bamboo to grow into boat-framing component shapes?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Squidly-Diddly, Jun 22, 2010.

  1. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    bamboo is the "in" wood for 'Green Building' in USA.

    They are using it for everything from veneer on doors to "solid bamboo flooring".

    This is because it grows so fast it is considered "sustainable" unlike Hardwood.

    They seem to have solved any fungus problems, as it is recommended as kitchen flooring.
     
  2. Stumble
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    Stumble Senior Member

    Bear, to make carbon fiber the base fillaments are cooked at around 1200 degrees F, with the tempratures rising and falling acording to surgically precise controls. While it might be possible to use bamboo fibers as a base instead of current fibers, it is well beyond the ability of anyone that doesn't already own a carbon fiber manufacturing company, or has a research lab to experiment with.

    Bamboo is a great material, it has a lot of possitives, but at the end of the day it is not sutable for use in marine environments.
     
  3. bearflag
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    bearflag Inventor/Fabricator

    Mostly marketing

    I love bamboo as much as the next guy. I love the look, it is super hard, makes great cabinets, tabletops etc. Engineered bamboo machines well.

    Some bamboos grow up to a meter a day.

    But lets be fair... for most applications, bamboo as a green product is mostly marketing.

    Part of the expensive cost of bamboo in consumer use is hype, but a lot of it is the implicit costs of turning bamboo into a material we want to use. It requires quite a bit of processing, a lot of material is lost, it usually has to be shipped from quite far etc.

    Even for things like using it for synfuel or gasification as a feed stock, other materials are competitive.
     
  4. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Isn't carbonizing bamboo just another source of charcoal? I carbonized a bunch of it this weekend, all the way to ash, and I don't mean a wood species.:D
     
  5. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Hardwood is sustainable at a slower pace.
     
  6. bearflag
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    bearflag Inventor/Fabricator

    Well as usual "it depends" is always the correct answer....

    If you want to create a predictable homogenous material like carbon fiber from bamboo or any other natural fiber, rather than petroleum.... good luck.

    You would probably have to break it down into some sort of bio-sludge first. Sort of like the bio-plastics they are making from corn and soy oil now. So that may be a better alternative to start with if you really really hate dino fuel, but don't do it for environmental reasons, because that sounds liek a whole lot of energy andf chemicals to get the job done.

    On the other hand.... if your material needs are a little less stringent, and homogeniety is less of a problem... you might be able to "hillbilly" something.

    When I say "hillbilly" I just mean, poorness and ingenuity is the mother of innovation. Its not hard to make an oven get to 1200 degrees, or to have the oven be oxygen free, and cause a charcoal/pyrolysis type reaction.

    It may be possible to cut strips of bamboo and press it into a sheet (woven or not), and cook it. And get a material with some positive properties when soaked in an epoxy resin.

    Whether this is worth doing aside from the science.... I have no idea.
     
  7. Leo Lazauskas
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    Leo Lazauskas Senior Member

    These parts of the tree were called "knees" and they were quite valuable. (English woodsmen were always on the lookout for them)

    V-shaped tree forks were used near the ship bow, but not as many of these were required as the knee sections which were used throughout the rest of the ship.

    Leo.
     
  8. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Please do me the courtesy of not using the word "hillbilly" in a derogatory way. I am proud of my "hillbilly" ancestry which includes well educated and highly decorated military people.
     
  9. bearflag
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    bearflag Inventor/Fabricator

    Its always interesting to learn how craftsmen from previous generations used the materials they had.

    Today plywood seems totally divorced from the actual tree.

    Choosing a piece of wood that is already bent or has an elbow or vee is smart, its liek choosing unidirectional fiberglass or triaxial mesh depending on what you are building. Much better than fighting the material properties.
     
  10. bearflag
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    bearflag Inventor/Fabricator

    I think my appreciation was apparent for what can be accomplished outside of the oxford and ivy league way of thinking. There is nothing magic about most industrial processes, just takes need, and some creativity and a willingness to do the work yourself. Frankly most science labs are more backyard engineering than fortune 500 manufacturing.

    With that said, some things do just require an immense capital industrial base.
     
  11. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Well put. I guess I am sometimes a little thin-skinned about the whole issue, having heard the term used in a less than complimentary way so often. :cool:
     
  12. Leo Lazauskas
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    Leo Lazauskas Senior Member

    Then you might like an excellent 7-part BBC video series called "The Trees that Made Britain". (It might be available on YewTube.)

    Leo.
     
  13. bearflag
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    bearflag Inventor/Fabricator

    YewTube, ho ho ho, clever.
     
  14. uncookedlentil
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    uncookedlentil Junior Member

    kick up rudders, grown prebent masts, and the outriggers look angled out probably to stiffen things up. innovation in the third world.

    http://www.mit.edu/people/robot/lepalepa/index.html


    I've had total success drilling water pipe out of bamboo, seems like a good step would be to run thinned epoxxy down the interior with a sort of gun cleaning rod. sealed, waterproofed, self replicating, boat material:)
     

  15. eponodyne
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    eponodyne Senior Member

    So is there a variant that grows to only a small diameter in long lengths? Weaving that and covering with 6-ounce hemp is certainly something I'd be willing to try. For that matter, I'm pretty sure you can get fabric that's 80% plus bamboo content and up. I know I've got some socks made out of 90% bamboo, the rest polyester, and they're both soft and strong. I'd think a few layers of this would handle compound curves nicely. I've got to believe you'd need a heavy hand with the fairing compound, I can't see this stuff sanding well at all.
     
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