Do Not Glass The Bottom Of An Old Wooden Boat Ever!!!!

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by The copper guy, Feb 20, 2010.

?

WILL GLASSING THE BOTTOM OF AN OLD BOAT SAVE HER OR DESTROY HER

  1. YES: IT IS THE BEST THING FOR HER

    8 vote(s)
    38.1%
  2. NO NEVER: IT IS SERTAIN DEATH FOR HER

    14 vote(s)
    66.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. troy2000
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    Well, there's your problem. It isn't that simple....:rolleyes:
     
  2. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    waikikin Senior Member



    Hi Berny, during my apprenticeship 25-30 years or so ago, I was involved in glassing a number of carvel 40' Navy workboats, it wasn't pleasant work but those boats are still around, I see them every day almost. The preparation was good on the jobs, worn out holey copper was removed, the timber sarface abraded well & a Ciba Geigy epoxy resin was used in conjunction with powder bound mat(600gram x 2-3), the sheathing was taken 4-6 inches above the wl & edge capped with segmental metal. I wouldn't say theres never been a problem with glass sheathing, & it can make later repairs harder but those boats are still with us & command good $. All the best with your vessel from Jeff.
     
  3. Ike
    Joined: Apr 2006
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    Ike Senior Member

    The pollm definitely needed more options. I am surprised PAR has entered the discussion. I am not fan of glassing over wood on old boats, but there are exceptions. On a new boat, if done carefully and correctly it can be a good thing. So the answer is not yes or no. A good suvey should tell you if there are problems.
     
  4. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    when I was a kid if it had glass on it we didn't touch it

    Old Robby was not a fan

    but from what I've gatthered its a way to eek out a few more years although they be the last years of a wooden hull

    from a preservation point of view its a disaster

    from a buisiness owner trying to squeeze a few more years out of a boat point of view its an economic short term fix

    from the point of view of a potential owner its a great way to not know what your getting into

    from the point of view of a long term owner its a big mistake
     
  5. The copper guy
    Joined: Feb 2010
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    The copper guy Junior Member

    My Bottom Line On This!!!!!!!!

    FIRST LET ME MAKE CLEAR.
    NEW CONSTRUCTION IS PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE AND INDEED AN IMPROVEMENT!!
    I APPLAUD THE DEVELOPMENT OF NEW COMPOSITE BUILDING METHODS AND LOVE
    BOTH THE STRIP BUILDING AND COLD MOLDED VESSELS BEING BUILT TODAY THEY ARE SUPERIOR TO OLDER METHODS IN EVERY WAY. (GLASS WILL STICK TO NEW WOOD) This is in noway part of the discussion!!!

    There are many reasons why people want to glass there old boat and that is there
    decision to make. (IT IS THERE BOAT)

    THE PROBLEM IS: They are often misinformed by well meaning guys, Who are also
    misinformed, The boating magazines remain MUTE on the subject as many of there readers are new to boating or have limited experience. (AND THEY JUST SELL MAGAZINES AFTER ALL) Even WOODEN BOAT MAGAZINE DOSE NOT DISCOURAGE THE PRACTISE? It turns out a lot of there subscribers have one? so much for what looks like a tradishional boat builders RAG! I have asked them to publish something on the subject but to date i have had no reply.

    OK You want more choices, IT IS OK IF: YOU WANT TO DO IT TO YOUR BOAT FOR WHATEVER REASON!!!! IN THE FULL KNOWLEDGE THAT IT HAS ITS LIMITATIONS?

    BUT YOU CANNOT IN ALL GOOD FAITH SELL IT OR ALLOW IT TO BE SOLD TO SOME INNOCENT WHO SKIPPED THE SURVEYORS REPORT IN THE BELIEF THAT ITS GLASSED OVER WHAT CAN GO WRONG???????
    Fortunately very few will ever go anywhere with it BUT WHAT IF THEY DID??????
    As a long time cruiser often in wooden boats, I have never met anyone traveling any distance in one of these death traps,
    Is that because no one actually sailed of into the sunset on one or because they were never seen again?????
    There are only a limited number of people qualified to answer the question? But it is there duty to speak out, If this was your son and his family buying somone elses
    abortion don who knows why? or when? wood any experienced sailor allow them
    to go to sea?


    THE QUESTION IS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN IS IT ALRIGHT TO SELL IT ON . YES/OR NO
     
  6. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    the real question is
    what is the chances of a catastrophic failure in a glass sheathed boat vs a non glass sheathed boat
     
  7. The copper guy
    Joined: Feb 2010
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    The copper guy Junior Member

    Yes Boston That Is The Thing!

    IT IS JUST A MATER OF INFORMING PEOPLE??????
     
  8. The copper guy
    Joined: Feb 2010
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    Location: Back in the UK

    The copper guy Junior Member

    It Is Just A Nappy On A Dethtrap!

    I can only say again, This is a very shoddy practice and only good for the guy doing it. Plus if he knows what he is doing and dos it (((?PROPERLY?))) THEN HE MUST KNOW ALL THAT CAN GO WRONG WITH IT.

    A DISCUSSION LIKE THIS AT LEAST GETS THE SUBJECT OUT THERE! Though it is interesting to see that the initial response to the subject was one of derision and anger, My wording of the poll was intended to get a response because without a response there is no discussion.

    PLEASE KEEP POSTING YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE SUBJECT FOR OR AGAINST AND LET NEW GUYS HAVE SOMETHING TO PONDER? EVERYTHING ABOUT A BOAT IS A COMPROMISE!!!!!!
     
  9. The copper guy
    Joined: Feb 2010
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    The copper guy Junior Member

    This Is Interesting Information!!

    This parshall glassing of just the bottom is something i had not considered before?
    It will work well in shallow drafted vessels if it is applied properly and no attempt is made to substitute hard epoxy putty for cocking it must be spline"d, The keel will have to be removed then reattached as a separate entity,
    This use of sheathing is acceptable as it still allows the boat to breath and some salt to get into the bilge, JUST LIKE WARING WELLIES,
     
  10. Landlubber
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    Landlubber Senior Member

    The Copper Guy....

    now I disagree entirely with one of your opinions......"and some salt to get into the bilge,".....ANY water in the bilge of a boat is detrimental to the life of the boat...salt water or fresh water, it all evaporates into humidity, and humidity and fungus are best mates. Dry salt attracts moisture, more problems.

    A wooden boat should be a dry boat, without exceptions...even put a drip tray under the conventional packing to achieve this if need be.....

    THIS I AM VERY SURE ABOUT (seeing as you like to emphasise things)....
     
  11. troy2000
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    Derision and anger? I saw plenty of derision, but no anger. The derision was because you're insisting on one of two extreme views, with nothing in between. That's like asking people their opinion of recreational drugs: should they be handed out in schools, or should anyone caught possessing them immediately be hanged from the nearest lamp post? Most reasonable people have views somewhere in between....

    Or, more to the point, it's like asking, "should you re-roof a house over the existing shingles? Is it the best thing for the house, or is it certain disaster?" Depends on the house, the condition of the roof sheathing under the existing roofing, the condition of the existing roofing, how many layers are already there and what kind they are, what kind of new roofing you're using and how you're applying it, so on and so forth.
     
  12. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    The lesson in this thread, I think, is that a planked hull that is in such bad shape it had to be glassed over is in too bad a state of deterioration to ever consider buying, and to sell one in that condition would be immoral to the point of being homicidal. At the very best, the person who glassed it over would be the only one really aware of its limitations and would have the best chance of surviving its use in that condition. In short, STAY AWAY from glassed over carvel-planked hulls.

    Do you agree?
     
  13. troy2000
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    I don't necessarily agree one hundred percent. The fact that someone glassed over a hull doesn't always mean they did so because the hull was so deteriorated they had no choice. They may simply have chosen to do so.

    Covering Wooden Boats With Fiberglass by Allan Vaitses has been around since 1981, and sales of it are still going strong. A lot of people have followed his advice.

    I do agree it runs up a caution flag. And if someone did it as a last-ditch, desperate maneuver to keep the boat afloat, you probably don't want it...
     
  14. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    It just doesnt seem like a great idea

    You instantly cant get to the fasteners of the planking to do a decent inspection and you cant replace planking in the future
    Also wood likes to breath and encasing it in big plastic bag ( basically what your doing when you glass a boat like this ) you're just begging for rot
     

  15. Hunter25
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    Hunter25 Senior Member

    Some need to get a better grip on the techniques and methods used in wooden construction. The inner layer of a double planked boat has fasteners that are just as difficult to get at as a fiberglass over carvel. What about the fasteners used in molded hulls that may be several layers thick, some are removed but they don't have to be. What about veneers over strip plank or just the edge fasteners in the strip plank. Each case has to be judged on its merits and not reside under blanket statements that show a lack of insight to known techniques and proven practices. In this column it appears that Copper Guy has joined the forum a couple of weeks ago and has been attempting to show how much he actually doesn't know. There are a lot of professionals and industry insiders here Copper Guy. Maybe hanging out and paying attention would be the better course to earning their respect, instead of telling them what they all ready know or speaking about things that you have less then a full understanding of.
     
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