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What Do We Think About Climate Change

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by Pericles, Feb 19, 2008.

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Boston Previous Member

Hey G
hows it today

found an article you might enjoy

Konrad Hughen, Associate Scientist
Marine Chemistry and Geochemistry Department
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Source: Oceanus Magazine

Natural materials such as shells, ice, corals, and tree rings contain clues to help scientists piece together how our oceans, atmosphere, and land have changed in the past. The history of the Earth is recorded in many different chemical codes and languages, however, so we geochemists and paleoceanographers create tools that help us translate what the planet is telling us.

My research focuses on developing tools to trace environmental changes that occurred over millennia and centuries, and even over decades and years—long before humans were recording them. The trouble is that sometimes these paleo-science tools give us conflicting information; we construct or interpret a story of the past, and then new observations upset that story.

Recently, my colleagues and I encountered such a problem. While some environmental clues tell us that the sun had a crucial role in ancient atmospheric changes on Earth, we found other clues suggesting that the oceans also play a central part. My research group is looking closely at the environmental tracers themselves to see if our current history of the Holocene Epoch (the past 10,000 years or so) is a work of fiction or nonfiction.

Follow the isotopes
One of our most important tools is an isotope of carbon known as radiocarbon, or 14C. It is incorporated into living and nonliving things and then radioactively decays at known rates into daughter isotopes. It is incredibly useful for dating events in Earth’s past. However, radiocarbon fascinates me for a different reason: It is quite valuable as a geochemical tracer of how carbon cycles through the Earth system.

The amount of radiocarbon in the atmosphere and in the surface of the ocean is controlled by changes in two things: how much radiocarbon is produced in Earth’s atmosphere and how it is distributed among various places on Earth—in the atmosphere, in living things, and particularly, in the deep ocean.

Radiocarbon is generated by cosmic rays that penetrate Earth’s upper atmosphere. When the sun is more magnetically active, more sunspots spew more radiation; that blocks cosmic rays from reaching our celestial neighborhood, and less radiocarbon is produced. When the sun is less active, fewer cosmic rays are blocked, and more radiocarbon is created.

Cosmic rays also produce beryllium-10 (10Be) in the atmosphere, making it another useful isotope to trace the sun’s activity. More solar activity generates less 10Be, and less gets incorporated into snow that falls out of the atmosphere and accumulates on glaciers. Analyzing cores from glaciers, scientists can reconstruct past levels of 10Be and solar activity.

There is a significant difference between beryllium and radiocarbon, however. Unlike beryllium, radiocarbon from the atmosphere dissolves into the ocean surface. The oceans’ circulation sometimes draws down radiocarbon from the surface and mixes it into deeper waters, where it decays over time. So the amount of radiocarbon in the atmosphere can also be influenced by the oceans.

What goes around comes around
My colleagues and I ran into our problem in the process of developing a record of climate changes as the Earth was emerging from the last ice age, about 15,000 to 11,000 years ago. We examined sediments cored from the seafloor in the Cariaco Basin off Venezuela. The sediments accumulate in layers over time, and they contain fossil shells of surface-dwelling microscopic marine animals. The shells incorporate radiocarbon and other isotopes from seawater that existed when the animals lived, and hence provide a record of past ocean conditions.

We were trying to correlate the timing of abrupt shifts seen in the Cariaco marine records with climate shifts on land that were detected by other researchers using 10Be in ice cores and 14C in tree rings. We got a near-perfect match of events.

The problem is that the fit was too good. The marine and terrestrial records of radiocarbon should not be a one-to-one match. Because the oceans draw down a portion of dissolved radiocarbon into the depths, there should be less radiocarbon in surface waters (and in fossil shells) than in the atmosphere.

A possible explanation for this discrepancy is that the oceans’ deep circulation sometimes stalls—a periodic phenomenon that we now know can drive major global climate changes. When these slowdowns in ocean circulation occur, less radiocarbon in the ocean surface is drawn down to the depths, leaving more radiocarbon to accumulate in the air and sea surface.

So if radiocarbon levels in the atmosphere increased solely because of changes in solar activity, then beryllium and radiocarbon deposits on land would have increased; seafloor deposits would have increased, too, but not as much. On the other hand, if the radiocarbon changes were caused by a shift in ocean circulation, marine sediments and terrestrial tree rings should agree—as they seem to—but then beryllium levels should not have increased.

Muddy, but telltale, clues
As paleoclimatologists, our instinct is to say that changes happened for one reason or another—either the sun caused the change, or the ocean did. But perhaps it is both. Perhaps the sun, in triggering changes in isotopes, also triggered small changes in temperatures or another process that slowed deep ocean circulation—which, in turn, would accelerate and amplify the isotopic changes.

Such a scenario is speculative and highly controversial. We cannot build such a case from just one event in geologic time, so now we are trying to learn more from the rich data trove of Cariaco Basin sediments. The ocean basin is a unique place, where a confluence of environmental conditions makes its sediments very sensitive detectors of climate changes.

So now we are going back to our seafloor cores, hoping to analyze the records they preserve of global climate at other times in the past 10,000 years, when substantial and somewhat abrupt changes occurred. Will those periods show the same mysterious and contradictory mix of solar activity and ocean cycling? Only the mud will tell.

This research was funded by the National Science Foundation and the Comer Science and Education Foundation, through the WHOI Ocean and Climate Institute.
Click to expand...

Boston, Feb 18, 2010

#4696

Boston Previous Member

the Dark Side eh
ok

seems like a simple definition to me
but Dark Side it is

actually the acronym for NASA in many other agencies is "never a straight story"

Boston, Feb 18, 2010

#4697

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,857
Likes: 400, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 2489
Location: Control Group

hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

Worth repeating

Marco1 said: ↑

But no what do they do the horses donkey?
amalaya....niguirisa sagarasa funcardito

However I did like the bit about Climate change is not about cooling or warming.
Of course it is not, why do you think it changed from Global warming?
Because it is not warming right?
So if it is not warming what are we talking about CO2 warming the planet?
Is it CO2 cooling the planet now. In which possible way is a greenhouse gas cooling? Are greenhouses cooling houses now? Have we all gone raving mad?
"Rapid changing" rapid in comparison to what? Climate changes rapidly, of course it does, It has been changing for millions of years...very rapidly without our help.
Click to expand...

In case anyone wasn't paying attention, I thought it should be repeated.

hoytedow, Feb 18, 2010

#4698

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,857
Likes: 400, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 2489
Location: Control Group

hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

Guillermo, how you say never in Latin? Is it nunc? Some could be Equus hemionus, no you.

Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc!

hoytedow, Feb 18, 2010

#4699

Boston Previous Member

4706 is a perfect example of agnotism

Agnotology, formerly agnatology, is a neologism for the study of culturally-induced ignorance or doubt, particularly the publication of inaccurate or misleading scientific data. The term was coined by Robert N. Proctor,[1][2] a Stanford University professor specializing in the history of science and technology.[3] Its name derives from the Neoclassical Greek word ἄγνωσις, agnōsis, "not knowing" (confer Attic Greek ἄγνωτος "unknown"), and -λογία, -logia.[4] More generally, the term also highlights the increasingly common condition where more knowledge of a subject leaves one more uncertain than before.

A prime example of the deliberate production of ignorance cited by Proctor is the tobacco industry's conspiracy to manufacture doubt about the cancer risks of tobacco use. Under the banner of science, the industry produced research about everything except tobacco hazards to exploit public uncertainty.[4][5] Some of the root causes for culturally-induced ignorance are media neglect, corporate or governmental secrecy and suppression, document destruction, and myriad forms of inherent or avoidable culturopolitical selectivity, inattention, and forgetfulness.[6]
Click to expand...

or as Jerry said

you aint going to learn
what you dont want to know

Boston, Feb 18, 2010

#4700

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 113
Likes: 28, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 240
Location: Sydney

Marco1 Senior Member

But doesn't that make you the horse's ***...

If you attempted to put that sentence into Spanish, you get 10 points for bravery. Clearly not an easy task.

A horse's *** is a ******* who's job is to produce mules with a mare. I am not sure how it got down to become a symbol of scumbag, but you can clearly not translate that and must use an equivalent expression. The fact that your English version starts with 'but' does not help. Bad English would turn into worst Spanish for sure.

Best to use local expressions in local lingo.
"Tienes razón, yo soy un burro" would be one way.

another....
" Si es que a burro no me gana nadie "

or perhaps...
Que burrada!

Only kidding....

There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self.
Aldous Huxley

Marco1, Feb 18, 2010

#4701

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 113
Likes: 28, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 240
Location: Sydney

Marco1 Senior Member

Agnotology, formerly agnatology, is a neologism for the study of culturally-induced ignorance or doubt, particularly the publication of inaccurate or misleading scientific data. The term was coined by Robert N. Proctor,[1][2] a Stanford University professor specializing in the history of science and technology.[3] Its name derives from the Neoclassical Greek word ἄγνωσις, agnōsis, "not knowing" (confer Attic Greek ἄγνωτος "unknown"), and -λογία, -logia.[4] More generally, the term also highlights the increasingly common condition where more knowledge of a subject leaves one more uncertain than before.

A prime example of the deliberate production of ignorance cited by Proctor is the tobacco industry's conspiracy to manufacture doubt about the cancer risks of tobacco use. Under the banner of science, the industry produced research about everything except tobacco hazards to exploit public uncertainty.[4][5] Some of the root causes for culturally-induced ignorance are media neglect, corporate or governmental secrecy and suppression, document destruction, and myriad forms of inherent or avoidable culturopolitical selectivity, inattention, and forgetfulness.[6]
Click to expand...

Boston, I understand that the person who originally posted that snippet, intended to target the sceptics' camp. However after reading it again, don't you think it actually describes the actions of government institutions and global warming alarmist to a t?

the study of culturally-induced ignorance or doubt, particularly the publication of inaccurate or misleading scientific data.
Click to expand...

Under the banner of science, the industry produced research about everything except tobacco hazards to exploit public uncertainty.
Click to expand...

Some of the root causes for culturally-induced ignorance are media neglect, corporate or governmental secrecy and suppression, document destruction, and myriad forms of inherent or avoidable culturopolitical selectivity, inattention, and forgetfulness.
Click to expand...

There's only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self.
Aldous Huxley

Marco1, Feb 19, 2010

#4702

Boston Previous Member

My Spaniard friends seldom if ever swear, my Mexican friends swear with a passion but its all pretty basic. kinda leaves a gap in my language skills which I suppose starts with my English. I guess I should have just stuck with French but after 40 or so years without it I cant even really say I know that language anymore either.

I am a man without a country

oh well
waving a beer at someone usually says it all

apparently this girl is a **** star
imagine that eh

I wonder how she feels about global warming

Boston, Feb 19, 2010

#4703

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 232
Likes: 13, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 179
Location: Australia

Zed Senior Member

Boston said: ↑

My Spaniard friends seldom if ever swear, my Mexican friends swear with a passion but its all pretty basic. kinda leaves a gap in my language skills which I suppose starts with my English. I guess I should have just stuck with French but after 40 or so years without it I cant even really say I know that language anymore either.

I am a man without a country

oh well
waving a beer at someone usually says it all

apparently this girl is a **** star
imagine that eh

I wonder how she feels about global warming
Click to expand...

Say...

fo-toe-shhh-opp.

Shes about as real as 'global warming'!

whoops I thought that was the term the mentally lacking media use?

Never trust someone who can't say 'I was wrong'.

Zed, Feb 19, 2010

#4704

Boston Previous Member

obviously you didnt watch the video

very entertaining I might add

story as she tells it is that the middle one is real and it was the other two that she had "done" to make them a better match

I'd link to the flick of her going at it but that might be a tad much for some of our viewers

but she is not the only case of multiple **** or nipples apparently
( told you I looked it up )

there is a girl with 7 nipples on 2 **** and numerous girls with three and four ****

this girl is but ugly but has the same condition as the previous with a tit inthe middle that developed and the two others that didnt

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://farm1.static.flickr.com/187/475086943_dbf5e2c761.jpg%3Fv%3D0&imgrefurl=http://flickr.com/photos/50887070%40N00/475086943/&usg=__nMRuW56gljN3NAwgycJk5JT1yjA=&h=375&w=500&sz=84&hl=en&start=5&sig2=3hmiKQpkQhx-AzSukRzMWQ&itbs=1&tbnid=Aa9w76U1AYzU6M:&tbnh=98&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthree%2Btits%26hl%3Den%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=XFp-S42MIpawsQOg0tD8Cw

this ones got three **** that all developed but she's not all that hot either

this one might offend some folks by the way
http://www.flurl.com/video/5259977_comments.htm

you might look up Supernumerary breasts if you are all that doubtful

Boston, Feb 19, 2010

#4705

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 232
Likes: 13, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 179
Location: Australia

Zed Senior Member

Oh dear god... I have a bridge for you to buy!

Never trust someone who can't say 'I was wrong'.

Zed, Feb 19, 2010

#4706

Boston Previous Member

your imagining things again
as I said
according to the girl the middle one is the one that developed and she had the two others done to match

she does an interview on Dailymotion followed by a more detailed look if you know what I mean

it is a relatively common medical condition in which typically only the extra nipple is visible
apparently occurring to some degree or another about 1% of the time
its called
supernumerary mamalia or something like that

look it up instead of acting like someone is claiming something they are not

Boston, Feb 19, 2010

#4707

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 232
Likes: 13, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 179
Location: Australia

Zed Senior Member

I said nothing... how can I be imagining things? You are projecting again.

Never trust someone who can't say 'I was wrong'.

Zed, Feb 19, 2010

#4708

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 72
Likes: 17, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 171
Location: connecticut

fasteddy106 Junior Member

Back to the regularly scheduled programing. This link is to a great article pointing out the mindset of the zero growth wack jobs who promote the AGW agenda in order to promote their own tortured agenda of devolution and societal regression..............

http://www.fcpp.org/files/1/PS084 - Opportunism and Exploitation.pdf

WHO IS JOHN GALT?

31,486 scientists have signed the Petition Projecthttp://www.petitionproject.org/gw_article/Review_Article_HTML.php

fasteddy106, Feb 19, 2010

#4709
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,644
Likes: 189, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2247
Location: Pontevedra, Spain

Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

fasteddy106 said: ↑

Another interesting read from JoNova.....................

http://joannenova.com.au/2010/02/the-big-picture-65-million-years-of-temperature-swings/
Click to expand...

Most interesting. Thanks for bringing it here. I will read it carefully.

Cheers.

Guillermo Gefaell
Gestenaval S.L., Naval Architecture & Marine Surveys

Guillermo, Feb 19, 2010

#4710

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