hi everyone,i want to try and build a yacht

Well M-Sasha, I see you are sticking to what you know best-personal attacks.
I don't make posts unless I know at least something about the subject. I will stand up for everything I said in my previous post here.
As to the time for building I was talking about traditional plank on frame construction and an "average" sort of cruising sailboat for each boat, 30 footer and a 42 footer. We all know there are 30 foot boats that could be built incredibly fast as well as examples that could take an incredibly long time, especially if one becomes obsessive about every little detail being perfect. The same can be said of any size boat you want to talk about.
For example I built a twenty foot sailboat that took over a year to build and I didn't even make the sails for it. But it was double planked and we coated everything with epoxy. This was a complete deviation from a traditional plank on frame boat.
If you care to disagree with my time for construction estimates which I assumed everyone with an ounce of brains would realize are very "round" numbers, then go ahead and post some factual basis that is better than my experience.
And hoytedow, I surely believe you are mistaken about the modern materials and construction being cheaper. I won't disagree with them being better in most respects and usually longer lived. In production shops I have seen corners cut because doing everything the proper way would increase man hours too much. But if you cut corners it is just as bad no matter what method you are using.

 

The time of construction depends largely on the desing, the method and more than anything the interior. I can build a 30' sharpie with a basic interior in less than three weeks by myself. A dingy in an afternoon.

 

Gilbert, this was the point of Sasha, which is a very talented boatbuilder by the way.

And I have to say he is right. Now you adding some explainations and it is interresting that you name the plank on frame traditional method. Quite fast I agree but one man one year, no this is not possible, on the type of boat we are talking. For the mnoment I am sorry to say you are baking of with some fussy explainations.
Please show the cruising boat of 30' you built in one year.
As always boat are full of heated conversation, thanks God! We are not the first one and not the last
Thanks
Cheers
Daniel

 

I have never built a sailboat that was exactly 30 feet long. I have never built one that was exactly 42 feet long either. I have built enough boats to know that I could have easily built a 30 foot traditional plank on frame boat of the same type as the 20 footer I mentioned above in less time than it took to build the 20 footer. I had to plank the 20 footer twice plus gluing the second layer. Then there were countless hours coating and recoating everything with epoxy.
To say that one man could not build a 30 foot sailboat in one year is just ridiculous.
Just for a famous example Joshua Slocum built his Spray in just 13 months. It was a complete rebuild, literally replacing every piece of it and incorprotating modifications to increase the freeboard. It was a 36 footer and I am unaware of him having the use of any power tools. Slocum was an experienced boatbuilder by the way, which is not as widely known as his famous sailing exploits and book.
I am certainly not the worlds fastest boatbuilder. I am astonished to find there are two experts who are slower than myself.
The main reason for me posting on this thread is that I wanted to counter the notion that a young couple wanting to build a boat and go sailing should spend all their money on the biggest boat they have money for and then not have any funds to actually go voyaging. There are countless examples of folks who have overextended themselves in this way. You know the bigger the boat the more is stays at the dock syndrome. I say this realizing that most of the posts here have been along the line of offering ways to save them money, which is fine. The most obvious way to save money is to not build more boat than you need.

 

Slocum came to my mind too. He worked outside in a cow pasture.

 

If we are talking Joshua Slocum and Spray, then dear Gilbert you are wrong again!
Slocum was a Sailor not a boatbuilder!
He did NOT BUILD the boat! He rebuild it (we have not been there to know what), what that ever was, it was not a new build.

No matter if you like it or not, make statements until we all are tired....
but a AMATEUR CAN NOT BUILD A 30 foot boat, ready for a circumnavigation, to the requirements of sunnyside, in one year. Peng , Period , Basta and Amen

This thread was not about open dinghies or steel pontoons, sunny has made clear what he wants. Now you bring examples of much less demanding work. Thats is a lame argument.

But lets stay calm and polite.
A boat that could fit his demands would be around 6000 hours-man minimum to make, right? (for a boatbuilder)
Do you have a calculator?
Then you have the same result that others have. Even two years means more then 8 hours a day, 365 days a jear.

No Gilbert, say sorry I was wrong, and do not defend such nonsense!

Sasha

 

6.000 hrs for a 30´ of such complexity sounds about right. A 42 would need about 10.000 to 12.000 manhrs. (we are talking about a liveaboard passagemaker done in wood epoxy, long keel, full body)
A little boatshop does the smaller in one year with 4 skilled people. But what am I talking, my ex production manager has the numbers in half the time I need. Thanks Sasha.


Two other boats I would like to bring to sunnysides attention.
Both "Motorsailers" imho the right choice for long passages, and a permanent liveaboard. Drawings by Paul Gartside, and copyright there!

Regards
Richard

 

M-Sasha,
My misinformed friend, Slocum indeed had quite a lot of experience building boats and you are the one who is wrong. You need to do a little studying on the subject of Joshua Slocum, his life, and the Spray.
And, although you do not come out and say it, you seem to be assuming I am an amatuer boatbuilder. I am not an amatuer. My father was a boat builder and so am I. I am not talking about skiffs or pontoons, either.
And furthermore you are the one who was not polite not me.
You are the one who should say sorry. And I have not been being rude, I have been correcting you.

 

back to topic

Lets focus on topic guys, not worth fighting.

Meanwhile the thread opener seems to




Regards
Richard

 

like the pic richard,hehehehe,hope the little ones dreaming of bones.apologies for no show lately,ive been away.firstly surprised at how my threads taken off.seems a few people are more interested in fighting each other but guess thats down to egos eh.gilbert,i do know the curlew.my best mates a marine biologist and spent 2 years down in antartica and south georgia and got to meet tim and pauline carr on curlew.said they are fantastic people too.funny enough the same friend thinks that i should shorten my boat down to 30 ft too,but personally its not for me.yes of coarse there is a lot of sense to your opinion in terms of money to build/buy,cost of maintenance,mooring fees where we have to,etc etc but would you really want to live on a 30ft for a couple of years.people can and do and fair play to them but i need to enjoy our adventure.as for having enough money to travel with if/after we build her then surely you dont think im naive enough to have not planned that out?if you'd have read my first thread you would have realised that this is not some spur of the moment idea for me in terms of the actual trip,but i do understand what your saying and point noted.thankyou.
the man hours issue is definately a serious point with regards to money.i can see now that having it built in the south of england is gonna be a considerable higher cost to say somewhere like turkey if we are looking at 10,000 mh for this size boat.just reading some of your threads and doing some maths has got me thinking back to finding something already built and getting a resto done on her???all food for thought.my only issue richard with getting it built in turkey is just the distance to travel to check on her and how shes progressing although i do a few air miles a year and realise that flying is pretty cheap and easy now a days.will post back soon with some more definate questions-all a bit vague from me at the moment.
regards
dan

 

Welcome back Dan,

there was a point in Gilberts post worth a note. The more experienced sailors on the barefoot routes around the world, have the smaller boats than the novices. But when you look at the average size, they are still above 40 ft. You are right with the size choosen.

The objections about building abroad are valid and easy to understand.
But have a look at dskiras comment about project management! Daniel is a seasoned designer and knows what he is talking.
Even if you would have a yard next door, would you be experienced enough to manage such project? (apart from cost issues) It is not only going there and have a look!
Do´nt get me wrong, I am not applying for additional workload, done for free, but in Turkey I COULD do that for you. And I am not going to "sell" you a boat, I do´nt make a sailing boat for you.

A second hand boat can be the right alternative (for that reason I posted some links), but a "restoration" is not what you are looking for. If we are talking the same language here, a resto will cost you more time and more money than a perfect used boat or even (sometimes) a new one!!!
Though I never restored a sailing vessel, I did about twelve steamships and motorvessels, and I remember the "tears" when replacing a "simple plate for 100 DM" ended at 55.000.-DM and still was just a partially solution. That happened EVERY time! We never ripped out and replaced one single piece only. Always there was more behind the visible issue.
Take care, do´nt get infected by the beauty of a old lady with gracious lines!!!

You said it, flying is cheap, especially now in winter. Come here for some days, I´ll show you around, let you get a impression how and why, in every material, method and technique. (except Ferrocement) And we can discuss the pro´s and con´s personally, even for a second hand boat.
You will not go back dumber, and have the touristic attractions uncrowded now.
Click my name to contact me directly.

Regards
Richard

 

"...Boatbuilding on a professional level has no "sunny side up", as both of you know. Only compromises. And a good compromise is the one hurting all parties! ALL..."

Both Dskira and Apex have it spot on. Your dream can end in disaster, unless you have a very knowledgeable project manager working for YOU.

 

Went a bit quiet here again!?!

 

Suuuuunysideuuuuuuuup!?

 

I've been quietly following along here........

If I were Sunny I'd be thinking. I'll bet that's where he's at about now and wisely so!

MIA