Propane injection for diesel.

My idea behind propane was to have lower revering for the same torque as well as lower noise, cleaner burning.
Propane/butane is often already aboard for cooking.
A smaller engine can give more power when needed, or just be lighter for same torque
G/H is also lowered a little
Here is an interesting test:
http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/Topic/18664/gas_systems_for_diesel_engines.aspx

My test show very high torque improvement at iddle and low rev
The home made dymo i made couldn't stand more for the moment.

Why do you think a prolonged use would ruin the engine if cooling ok and only used to lower rev ?
Canadian tests show that temp goes down 15°C at low speeds

Butane/propane(LPG) injection seems to attract many designers:
The more radical solution was to run diesel 100% with butane/propane
http://journals.pepublishing.com/content/7l78771k12j4tg40/
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=16076353


Now with a little deeper search, i found that ...

This idea IS already marketed !

http://www.dieselperformanceproducts.com/
http://www.wjsperformance.com/powershot/powershot.htm

I'm sure that the power and torque increase will give :idea: to a lot of diesel owners

Please also keep in mind that here in europe,
LPG is 0.6€/L
diesel is 1€/L,
unleaded 1.2€/L....

 

Chances are too much fuel/air of any kind and something is going to go flying.

 

use, not abuse

Yes, but only if you do not respect some limits, just like in life, poison is the quantity.

 

Dual fuel diesel engines make sense if you are going to lower the compression ratio down to near the optimum efficiency/power ratio, which is about 13-15:1. Normally a diesel (especially a small one) will not be able to start at this comp ratio, which is the sole reason why they have set it so high in many engines. But once running on another fuel, like propane, they can then run on diesel just fine at the lower ratio and make more power and burn less fuel because you are not needlessly over compressing the air charge.

Jimbo

 

Very interesting Jimbo !
15:1 is what i put on a race engine with hot cam
Where did you get this ideas ?
Is there any experience, example, test telling more about it ?

 

There's a lot of text on this out there; even this diesel tech school book has a chapter on it:


Diesel: Fundamentals, Service, Repair
by William K. Toboldt


Hardcover: 352 pages
Publisher: Goodheart-Willcox Pub; 4 edition (April 1983)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 087006424X
ISBN-13: 978-0870064241


Jimbo

 

And about commercial application ?
Do you know if any manufacturer dared doing such a "difficult to use engine" or did this dual fuel medium compression remain a principle ?

 

Many large marine engines use this strategy. Large means 1000 HP/Cylinder and larger. Fairbanks-Morse and Sulzer both had dual fuel marine engines.

Jimbo

 

Your system is Browns gas

You are inadvertently injecting some moisture into the cylinders.
Moisture of this type doesn't compress increasing compression.
I would be concerned for the overall lifespan of the engine.
Do you have a larger alternator for the extra required amperage needed to generate the hydrogen gas?
How does this effect fuel economy?

Why does Yanmar not implement this technology as standard, well, even as an optional extra?

 

It depends very much on the make of the diesel engine.

Some are at more risk than others but essentially its adding a dry non-lubricating fuel to the top end of a diesel.

 

Oh **** not the discredited Browns Gas again ....higher comp ratio gives more efficiency which is why Diesel is more efficient than petrol...oh god help us all .....

 

Give me Turbo Intercooled any day.

Yanmar will be onto that one, but don't tell them.

 

higher comp ratio gives more efficiency which is why Diesel is more efficient than petrol..

AND diesel is heavier than gasoline , so there is more to burn in every gallon.

FF

 

The first statement above is just wrong; Diesels are more efficient despite their higher (too high, really) compression ratio.

The second statement is the true one as diesel fuel is the secret to diesel efficiency. But heavy fuels can only be properly ignited (in a piston engine, anyway) by compression ignition. Just how much heat, and therefore compression, you need to get the job done varies with things like ambient air temp and engine temperature. Unfortunately, the mechanical compression ratio is not variable, but rather fixed. It follows that the engineers that design these engines must allow for the worst case scenario of starting conditions, which is cold engine on a cold day. Thus they choose a compression ratio that really is too high for all other times, except for this worst case. This cuts efficiency as the engine is uselessly over compressing the air charge once it is warmed up. Oh if only someone could invent a variable compression ratio diesel engine!

Jimbo

 

Correct Jimbo.
But the worst case scenario is the everyday scenario, so, every propulsion system has to stand that test of worst cases. Especially when there is no "garage" to warm up the metal crap and enjoy a coffe whilst that may happen. If we go to sea, the WCS is the minimum we have to be prepared for.
For that reason:
Kistinies ideas, and phantasies remain unmature if they are related with a seagoing vessel, and show very clearly he never was at sea in a serious manner, nor severe situation. (and he has proven that by one of his former statements, going from GB to the Med. Sea and crossing the bay of Biscayne in Winter time is " just a short trip in a fast multihull"
Do´nt waste your time, he will not understand your valid input.
look here for example:
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/hybrid/diesel-hydrogen-hybrid-trawler-27028-5.html#post273595

give this a valuable input:

or enjoy:

this?

RAINBOWDUST................................

Regards
Richard