Deepest Anchoring

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by mydauphin, Mar 30, 2009.

  1. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Fair enough. My post came out a bit bitter, sorry. It's just that four point anchoring and such are out of reason for a guy and his little fishin' boat. If he is out in some current, and four moorings are attempted for whatever reason, tears will be cried. Precision anchoring with a one direction current on a relatively windless day should necessitate only two anchors.
    The fellow had an idea,.. tinkering is great but the physics of this are difficult to overcome enough without entering the Navy ability to throw time, money, and complexity at the problem. I didn't knock your spelling as I mispell routinely for not using spell-check or proofing. Merely pointed out that the error wasn't mine. Some of the most brilliant minds I've met couldn't spell for crap. If he can tell us what type of boat, the wind and sea, the current, the bbottom composition, etc., maybe we can actually help!
     
  2. kistinie
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: france

    kistinie Hybrid corsair

    Ignorance ?
    Do you think i could have the honor to receive a bit of your knowledge ?

    - To separate boat and rov archoring is nonsense ? Why ?
    - Opposing two vectors to give boat motion a simplier low speed 1 axe move can't work ? Why ?

    All these ideas come from the idea that i would not take the risk to loose my 500$ Fortress Anchors and lines playing with high depth... I'm not only ignorant, but poor too :)
     
  3. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    With the Western world nearly regulated and "unioned" out of actually producing things, the Chinese anchor copies can be considered disposable they are so cheap.
    In the words of Rodney King; "Can we all just get along?". Think of the people we could help if we weren't responding just for our egos and didn't take tangents to attack others.
     
  4. kistinie
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: france

    kistinie Hybrid corsair

    If you are paid 2$/day and your enterprise pollutes as much as possible to paid as less as possible, your cheap work is disposable... Sad world.
    No work should be disposable, whatever it's price, especially when it's price is fixed by market.


    Stop war, i hope and vote for your program, but i'm afraid you are an irreducible optimistic dreamer :))

    if for a beginning we could get just some technical debate, with facts and reflexion about ideas, i would be please.
     
  5. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Sorry, never said anything about stopping war. I DO prefer to win wars however. Just would like to use the forum as it was intended.
     
  6. kistinie
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: france

    kistinie Hybrid corsair

    As intended !
    So do i !

    I was just talking of forum war...nothing more, i do not really care of what a state decides or does, even when i do, this is not the place for this, and above all, i care much more about individuals acts.

    Any idea can be discussed, any opinion is worth ( maybe with a few exceptions !)

    i am here to think, invent, learn and share knowledge. Not to be insulted.

    As far as i know, i try to stay fair, i respect others opinions and stay on a technical debate as much as i can. Now, just like you, i guess, i do not accept to be treated as ignorant, idiot or anything of this kind without justifications and proofs of such statements.


    So in short, we can talk of anything...but not with anybody.

    This being said, i have learned a lot about my defaults, but i always do not know why my solution about anchoring is rubbish...
     
  7. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    That is exactly the problem Kistinie, you do not understand! The idea with a drogue is the pure nonsense and you do´nt like to accept that. A drogue counteracts anchoring like setting a sail. What mydauphin needs is a stable position above a wreck and a free moving ROV (not one at anchor). But you believe you tell old salts how it goes, and you have proven that many times on other threads that you´re a layman, sorry.
    So,stop arguing if your posts are labeled properly.
    Regards
    Richard
     
  8. jehardiman
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    Location: Port Orchard, Washington, USA

    jehardiman Senior Member

    Actually, setting a 4-point moor is a relatively easy exercise in seamanship for anyone who claims to be a boathandler. I have done it several times from open boats and a couple of times from my own 26' sailboat. In this situation, it just requires 3 people, 4 sets of ground tackle with very heavy kellets, and lots of rode.

    The operative word in that phrase is "should". We have a saying in Deep Submergence, "Wish into one hand and p**s into the the other and see which one fills up first." Success is accomplished by ensuring a situation will occur rather than hoping it will, which leads to the next comment....

    I laughed out loud at this. We rarely have sufficient time to prepare for a mission, never enough money, and only a fool adds complexity to deep water back deck operations. That said, all three have to be traded off to get a mission accomplished successfully. It is a poor economy not to add sufficient capability to a system to allow it to operate in the great majority of expected waters and environments. One must trade-off the cost of not accomplishing a mission against the loss of a ROV system against the day-rate cost of sitting waiting for a weather window. While in this case, the ground tackle may cost more than the ROV system and mydauphin has all the time in the world, the ROV is more likely to not find the wreck, get fouled, or be lost the less ground tackle you have.

    Now this is a statement that all can agree on. FWIW, with an open bow boat, a handheld GPS, and some knowledge of the current this wreck inspection could be straightforward. However, depending on ROV capabilities and visibility (400' will most likely require lights), there will be some risk to the ROV fouling, which is why I wouldn't recommend it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2009
  9. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    Off Topic

    Have you ego-maniacs even noticed the original poster has been missing from this pissing contest for about two pages?

    Would any of you consider some constructive, interactive dialogue with this ambitious, adventurous sole? After all, this is his or her thread...

    It may be a stretch to draw him/her back, but I would think it decent of you if you tried at this point. That is, providing you have anything constructive to say.

    We need more information about this under-taking, but that may no longer be available if the poster has turned to other, more helpful resources.

    Perhaps if we could stay on topic this discussion could be more helpful.

    I don't know, just an idea.

    Tom
     
  10. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    well Im no professional but as a kid we sure went out sailing and often rather than drag perfectly good bottom paint up on the beach to be ground into oblivion and trashed by the next sneaker wave we would anchor and swim in
    two anchors was a mater of habit and seemed to never fail
    we never set a sea anchor in conjunction with it so I have no idea how that would help
    the tide current or wind will keep you in line ok unless your in some real contrary seas and then I would probably not leave my boat floating without me

    deep anchoring is not something I have any experience with but the the drogue just seems superfluous or even detrimental to a successful set

    even diving off the old lobster boat we never set more than two anchors
    although we did make it a point to check the anchors before we swam off

    best B

    its always best to learn from the mistakes of others rather than have to always make your own
     
  11. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Jehardon,.. after I extended an olive branch. I don't care enough to start dissecting a little bit of navy knowledge from someone that claims to have set a four point mooring in current in 400' of water with very heavy kellets, anchors and rode from a 26' sailboat. SubTom - I was trying to help the dude. Be my guest. I do know more about this topic than you two can Google but It's all yours.
     
  12. bntii
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    bntii Senior Member

    Great- fisticuffs I'm in!

    Kristinie I like this ideal.

    Do I take it you mean that the drag of the sea anchor caught in a light current is helpful in damping the force of the engines in forward?

    This provides a static force which by exceeding the surface dynamics will regulate the relative forward motion of the vessel through the current stream..

    So holding station is simpler? Might it be required that a twin screw vessel be used to make this work well?

    Or will a autopilot work to hold her head to a bearing??
     
  13. riggertroy
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Location: New Zealand

    riggertroy Senior Member

    Anchored for a short period, daylight hours only, in 130metres of water, we used a plow type anchor with a retrieve line of 16mm and the main warp consisted of 12mm chain - 20m and 220m of 20mm line, worked well but the current was nil and wind was max of 10knots
     
  14. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
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    Location: Florida

    mydauphin Senior Member

    Rigger, What size boat? It sounds like a plan... thanks
     

  15. riggertroy
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Location: New Zealand

    riggertroy Senior Member

    ~100ft LOA, sailing vessel

    NOTE: the weather conditions were perfect for what we wanted to do and we were well aware we could lose the anchor and gear.
     
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