Please help me choose the right plans for my needs

You might want to look at Sam Devlin's designs. His website is http://www.devlinboat.com/. I built his guppy design to use as a tender to my sailboat cruising down here in Mexico. I modified the stern to make it primarily outboard powered with rowing as a backup. I also modified the sheerline so it would fit on the foredek of my sailboat. It took just under 80 hours to build including the time spent on modifications. It weighs just over 100 lbs and total cost was approximately $600. Fun project. Good luck.

 

chuck: thanks for the link. I couldn't help but drool over the sailboats . Thats another project for another time though . As for the rowboats, the only one that really appealed to me was the Fairhaven Flyer, but i'm not really a fan of the sliding seats. I think some of the other disigns I've been considering would be better suited for me. Although, I appreciate being to look at many different options before choosing the one I'll end up building.

Rasor: Yeah, I guess its very true that building something ugly would take just as long as building something beautiful. I'm more worried about the cost of a mistake in a strip boat compared to the cost of a mistake in plywood. I guess it just seems like I wouldn't feel is bad if I made a mistake on plywood.

I've spent a very long time looking at all the designs at glen-l, ever since about 3 or 4 years ago when I first started getting that idea about building a boat. I've always wondered how condusive the plans were to first time boat builders. I like the idea of full size patterns, although it seems like cheating . What I'm wondering even more is do the plans contain step by step instructions showing the "what to do" as well as the "how to do it", or does it simply contain the basic instructions and its assumed I would already know the "how" part. The former i would feel comfortable following along. The latter would involve me buying some books (which probably wouldn't be a bad idea anyways )

apex: That glen-l whitehall is bead/cove, isn't it . When I saw strip planking, I thought lapstrake . Lapstrake is what seems difficult to me. I've looked through your gallery. There are some very amazing and beautiful things in there... very impressive.

Thanks for the warning about the newfoundland plans and the dory. If building in plywood isn't really going to be easier than strip planking, and just take less time, then there really isn't going to be much benefit to building a plywood boat first, I guess. Time and patience I have plenty of. Aside from the beauty of the strip boats, another thing I like is that it seems it would allow me to build as fast or as slow as I need to or am capable of. 25 weeks/350 hours doesn't really turn me off of the design. I probably wouldn't mind if it took even longer. And of course I would accept all the help the community is willing to give.

The more I think about it, the more I'm letting myself get talked into buying the plans for the whitehall (I know, twist my arm, right? ) That way, I'll know what i'm getting myself into, and actually buying plans might motivate me just enough to actually start building something

So, isn't this about the time where somebody jumps in and brings me back down to earth, and tells me I shouldn't or couldn't actually build this boat?

 

On the Glen-L website buy the following books. Boat Building with Plywood, and the Boatbuilder's Notebook. Buy the one on fiberglassing later. Read, enjoy, and then jump into the fray. Be careful--it's addictive. My vote is go with the Whitehall. That build is easy and you can hire a cabinet shop to mill your siding if you do not have the tools. Also, you are building something that has value. And if it is not perfect, paint it. Please look over the customer photos. The pieces are mostly all the same. Stan Glen-L has thousands of clients, many thousands. There is a reason for that and YOU DO NOT WANT TO LOFT. Regardless of your decision, I'll give you all the help I can. stan

 

I completely disagree with not wanting to loft a design. Lofting is about the best way to become "intimate" with the shapes and lines of a boat, other then drawing it up yourself. This means you'll recognize a part and it's relationship with other parts easily and instantly. You also can "pick up" templates, angles, bevels and a host of other information repeatedly from the lofting.

Lofting is relatively easy, costs very little and is a great reference and is actual size, that will be used over and over during the process.

Building a cardboard mock up of a cockpit or cabin future (examples) can save you hours of effort trying to figure out how things work or where you'd like modifications to live.

Strip planking (bead and cove or square edged) is about the easiest build method for the novice to enjoy. It can be a bit tedious with all the strips, but you can lay them reasonably quickly and much more enjoyable shapes can be employed in the design.

Taped seam (stitch and glue, etc.) is often touted as the novice builders friend, but what you aren't generally told is it has a very high "goo factor" (my term for epoxy and 'glass work). On a boat the size Rhinox is considering, the costs and effort associated with sheathing, taping and fairing a taped seam build, can double the costs and effort of a similar boat without sheathings and lots of goo work.

Considering the "perfectionist" nature of this future builder, my recommendation would be for a strip planked build. He can hone his skills on the jig, then move to the strips with a fair bit of confidence. This would give him a chance to "work" some wood, before he commits saw to stuff that will be seen on the boat.

 

Rhinox,

this:.......
"So, isn't this about the time where somebody jumps in and brings me back down to earth, and tells me I shouldn't or couldn't actually build this boat? "
will not happen.

You can, no matter what others may tell you! PAR brightened (as usual) my statements a bit, thanks Paul. (as usual)
And I agree in every single point, that lofting is a big part of the deal. For you it should not be a task to fear, and it´s for shure the best way to gain knowledge of how and why the pieces have to come together.

If you doubt the "whitehall" design in terms of capability for its weight (compared with some S&G designs), be assured it´ll be at least as fast, but can carry the intended weight two times easier, due to it´s greater draft (displacement). Although bringing it up to some speed, lets you pay several drops of additional sweat, due to weight. But that was your opening question, a boat to enjoy and to get you in shape, was´nt it!?

To the strip method in general. Choose the bead and cove way! The novice gets a tight seam much easier than with a square batten with less than half the effort. Bevelling battens can drive you nuts. (We use B&C only at our yards, for time saving reasons)
And one point to slightly disagree with PAR (as usual). I would apply a glass Epoxy layer on the outside on any wooden newbuild. It really helps to prevent the surface from scratches and minor damage.
Before you buy material ask here for the right stuff. It´s easier (and in general much cheaper) to start with the right properties of material, than to substitute crap. Do´nt let you talk into "proven" material some suppliers of the plans offer, they do´nt make a fortune selling the plan, aftermarket is their profit.
You must not re invent the wheel, if you just count the few already involved in this thread, you´ll find a annual consumption of several thousand tonnes of wood and Epoxy resin, accumulated. Although even we can fail, there is at least one or the other idea how to.

Go for the boat that attracts you most! Go for your emotion, not for reason! (within a senseful ballpark). It is half the task to build something you love from the very beginning, than a piece you just like to get done! Feel proud of your final result from the start, it´ll help you through some disappointing situations if they appear.
Make it a sort of "online boatbuilding happening" for us! You have probably the biggest source of skills and knowledge right at your desk, available 24hrs, every day. Let us share your burden and your success, you´ll never be lost, must not go the trial and error way.

Go for it with enthusiasm, we handle the rest.

Kindest regards
Richard

 

Be happy Rhinox,

you are in good hands with PAR and APEX.
Go for your boat.

Sasha

 

As an engineer I resemble that remark and resent its veracity, and remember my wife cannot be compelled to testify against me. While you should certainly do your homework at some point you should just haul off and build it! Seriously, I understand your concerns about not making mistakes and so forth. Utilize this forum to ask your questions before and after you try something. Use cardboard or inexpensive foam board to test your jointmaking and fitting ability before cutting up expensive material.

 

A wise old engineer specializing in the arcane discipline of gear design used to tell me, "It's time to shoot the engineers and build the product!"

 

Well in the past I used a similar speech for Architects only, but with your permission I will quote you occasionally.

And thanks Lieutenant for your backup!

Shush, Stay under your stone Sasha, we promote ourselves already to much

 

I found this link in another post, he has some nice, simple designs and free boatbuilding info you may find useful. http://www.spirainternational.com/hp_free.html

 

To extend further what PAR had to say about lofting, and by extension the whole traditional method of boatbuilding over or inside of a carefully laid out frame or jig, I would say that one great advantage of the "old" ways is that you are doing all your measuring, cutting and fitting on the loft floor and building frame, where mistakes are easily discovered and easily fixed. Only when you are completely satisfied (measure twice, cut once) do you start actually working with the expensive materials and the permanent glues. A beautiful strip boat this size can be built but it will tend to be heavier than a plywood boat, not always a bad thing. Choose a design that makes your heart sing, and you will be able to figure out how to build it. You might even go to a hobby shop and invest in some balsa wood and make a scale model.

 

Thanks everybody for your support! I'm going to think it over for a few days, but I think I'm going to buy the whitehall plans. I'll also order a couple of the books that have been recommended. Remember, my timeframe to start building isn't until the middle->end of July, so that will give me some time to study the plans and figure out how to build the boat in my head, and then set up a project outline for what I need to buy and roughly when (engineer, remember ). I'm sure I've have some questions about the plans after I read through them. I hope I can count on everybody's help to keep me in the right direction.

In the next couple of weeks, I'll be taking a little weekend trip back to my hometown in PA. My grandfather was retired Navy, and did a bit of woodworking as a hobby. He has all sorts of power tools and hand tools, specifically intended for wood working. When he died ~10-15 years ago, my dad, being an only child, inherited everything. Well, my dad doesn't use the stuff. In fact, none of the stuff has even moved from the workshop in the loft of my grandmother's garage since he passed. I'm hoping that my dad will let me take the tools that I would need back with me, and that they are still in good working order after sitting around collecting dust for more than a decade. We'll see.

Would somebody be willing to give me a rundown of what lofting actually is . I don't think the process worries me at all, but then again I'm not sure exactly what it is. I thought it was the process of transferring the data from the table of offsets to the wood for the stations and connecting the dots in a smooth manner, but you guys are making it seem like its more than that. I think if someone could just tell me exactly what it is, I'll be ok. If I still don't understand, are there any good books I can read on the process?

My biggest concern about a strip plank boat was that I just didn't have the skills to do it, and that plywood was easier. What I'm understanding now is that strip plank isn't necessarily harder, but its just more tedious, and takes longer. That's absolutely fine with me. Time is not really a factor. In fact, the longer it takes, the better (within reason ).

Timothy: Thanks for the model building suggestion. When I was thinking about building a plywood boat, I was planning on buying some birch model aircraft plywood and using that to build a scale model. That way, I could practice doing everything just about exactly how I would do it when building the real thing. Any tips on how to build a scale model of a strip plank boat? I think that would be a worthwhile exercise for me to do, in between getting the plans and starting the real construction in July.

 

Oh wow... my fiance just told me to go ahead and buy the plans She didn't even fight me about it at all. Is this a good sign, or a bad sign

 

Send me your fiance for a week, I´ll give you my comment on that for free!

 

The Whitehall plans say in their info that it gives you all the info to loft if you wish but includes full size patterns in case you do not want to do that. Old tools usually are superb and can be cleaned up and re-conditioned. Best of luck to you. Stan