Low price Catamarans

In Your sequence of evidences why you don't consider also the possibility that all those people they do not have enough money to complete their projects? Isn't this the real reason you stopped your project? Couldn’t be this the reason Mr. Creed O'Hanlon's delayed his boat delivery with unusual modifications? Who said to you that Mr. Warren will continues to build his boat? Do you know how many uncompleted projects due to lacks of customer finances are around all yards in the entire World? It is possible that has to be always a yard fault? Why if you have all rights you do not go to a lawyer and start in the right way your repossession or refund?..!!?? Or it is that you even do not have the money to making a lawyer service advance payment..?!?

 

Mr Self and friends

let me answer your last point :


Mr. Self and others will always claim that they don't want to get involved in a long and expensive litigation ... so to underline that they could easily win the case as the Yard performed badly or even in an illegal way .

False .

They CANNOT get involved in a litigation , as :

1. They don't carry even the money for the lawyers ;

2. THEY breached the contract and all evidences are against them ;

3. Typically ( Creed/Self/others ) they did not pay the due payment ( milestone or final payment ) and it is hard to claim anything with such a strong fact to deal with .


So , in the simpliest possible way , those Clients don't have nothing to claim , so , in fact , end up posting a bunch of ********s .

They just should learn to respect the Contracts that THEY signed , and double check to have the money to pay , when they order a boat .


Ciao


RB

 

explanation from Mr. Warren Tiki 38-n.110

Dear All

once again , the facts are different from what has been described by Mr. Self and Mr. Creed ,

in this case relating the "case" with Mr. Warren ; there is no case , in fact .

I attachment his letter to us , of today , 5 February 2009 .

Regards

RB

 

my due diligence mistakes

Before handing over thousands of dollars do some research on the man and the company. Below I list what I did in 2006-2007 before entering into a contract with Mr. ********** and I still had a bad experience.
1) internet search on name and company did not return any negative results,
2) a friend of mine, fellow boatbuilder, veteran of many long-stay visits to Thailand, visited the south Pattaya yard, spoke to a RB client, recieved a positive recommendation,
3) I requested email addresses of 3 references and got feedback from them.

What have learned about the amount of research I did?

a)Positive references from current RB clients mean nothing. The RB client at the Pattaya boatyard in 06-07, after his boat was launched, now returns a very negative recommendation.
b) Seek input from an independent, surveyor, example Jim Watts at jimmy@siam-surveyors.com.
c) Seek input from Thai-based (Bangkok) attorneys, for example: Watson Farley & Williams (Steve Burkhill, sburkhill@wfw.com), Chandler & Thong-ek, Tilleke & Gibbins.
d) Seek input from marine trade organizations: http://www.thai-marine-association.com/
d) Visit the yard. Talk to RB, his cronies and employees. Visit again 2 months later. New employees?

My point is you can't do good business with bad people. If you are a current client at the 50% or less point in the project consider moving the boat (like Warren) or quitting and cutting your loses. If you are way beyond the 50% mark then complete the project as soon as possible and sell the boat at whatever you can get. ***** **********'s infamy is spreading fast. Reputation is everything.

Now, any internet search brings up the link to this thread in boatdesign.net. ***** can run, but he can't hide anymore. If, after a buyer reads this thread, they still want to pursue a boatbuilding project with ***** ********** then at least they will be on guard.

I hope this information has been useful.

cheers
rself

 

our 60' in Turkey

Dear All

our T60 , the 60' Passagemaker , arrived to Turkey and is now cruising in that region .

I just received some photos from his owner and i decided to post one here ; after many words , one photo that don't need commentaries .

Best Regards

RB

 

due diligence of Mr. Robert Self

Mr. Self forgot only one due diligence , that is useful to add to his list :


4.) call his Bank and check if his funds are enough to build the boat





RB

 

Yes and enough money to making a lawyer service advance payment.

 

Another anonymous from Thailand... all doctors and experts about custom boat building, of contracts, of customer relations, of ethic of business but.... all anonymous.... another "Icciah" Thai builder?

 

No but I do find this to be good argument for not having a custom boat built overseas. A production boat would be far less problematic.

 

Yehaaa...so why in Thailand repair yards are full of production boats and all our customers are happy and no space to produce more.... I had to rent another land to expand... You are a very clever buyer.... or money looser... please pass to me, I have a catalogue of used production boats for sale, but you will have to take care to repair...

 

production boats ?

I think that everybody should start owning first a production boat ; then build up some experience and knowledge ; it is a long process sometimes , but worths a lot .

Then , with a clear idea of what is important and what is not , find a builder for a custom made project ,

but only if there is not on the market something similar ,already in production .

This would make all much easier for us and for the customers as well .

This is the case of some of our clients , as the owner of the T 60 , that are all happy .

I think that the point is that they KNEW about the difficulties of having a boat built, costs and potential troubles . They got experiences and they were not surprised by the events .

This is my contribution , that i believe worths something and is not only a polemic post .


thanks

RB

 

I have been following the endless back and forth messages. It looks very much like enough has been said by all sides. Would it not be a good idea for benefit of those who are trying to use these forums to find usefull information to move on that those that are not in argument with their customers or the other way around in Thailand. I can name Roger Diggleman and Swiss builder in Phuket with a company called Composite yachts. To date a self designed river boat for a Thai company called River Rovers * Happy customer ( British) and boat in operation in Phuket / 2 X smaller Wharram cats built 8 both customers happy with boats still in Phuket ( one customer Swiss), a 44 French design cat built for French customer Marc * Extremely happy and due to head off to Chagos soon - AND I MEAN EXTREMELY HAPPY OVER THE MOON, a current project building a prototype power cat for Arnie Duckworth the founder of ATL Composites Australia. Alloy bottom and the rest ATL Balsa panels - looks impressive and is still being finished - customer Arnie a professional in the industry very happy, in process a 38 foot composite cat bveing built under contract for Composite Catamarans Co. Ltd Phuket by Roger - see www.catamaransailingphuket.com for some background - all the partners extremely happy with the ongoing development of the boat of which Roger is a major part. Hulls are from Robin Chamberlain design moulds ( purchased for the project and at Rogers yard - and owed by Comp Cats. The project is inspected at important stages by Jereon Deknatal of Waterline Marine - Jeroen Deknatel [survey@waterline-marine.biz] to make sure of quality. The owners of Composite Catamarans have employed Jeroen for this. Tne surveyor is welcome at anytime at his own decision to make inspections and is informed for special stages inspections. Both a chronological photo gallery is being made ( dated on the camera) by Comp Cats and by Jeroen and written reports. All materials used have certification backup from manufacturers and samples or all materials from the build are held for customer inspection. Roger is so well trusted in Phuket that these two jobs are being done on a month labour payment scheme and not a fixed quote.
Here is a good luck story that will continue - hopefully as long as can be.

Another good luck story is Gunther Nutt also a Phuket builder that specialises in Wharram cats and built the first of a new 46 foot design some years back. Gunther builds special quality Wharrams and is the official builder recommended by James Wharram. James has been over at least 3 times to see Gunther and I have had the fortune to meet this incredible man and his wife Anika. He is still going at a very old age and still sharp as a knife. Gunther has built around 6 big Wharrams up to 52 foot with some in CE survey for a European customer. His norm is not to have a contract with a customer just a agreed price. Can we switch the subject of this forum item to who everyone would recommend as a builder??

If all that are reading this treat so far havent gotten the intended messages from all sides they never will!!

 

Spelling correction I meant Thread not Threat. Must have been a subconsious mistake after reading all the messages in this THREAD

 

Yes, I suggest my self as a builder!!
About www.catamaransailingphuket.com, nice, as many,.... even in Thai, but.... price? otherwise we go out from the first question post on first page of this thread (...not treat)

 

That it is a right consideration… Finally an useful post from your side RB.... thanks!!