Global Warming? are humans to blame?

great movie, loved it! took the whole family. double feature with cinderella the opener.

speaking of fantasies, most american’s that i know, and i happen to know a lot, are incredibly embarrassed with our government. democrats, republicans. all of them. throw the whole lot out. massive term limits for all, something on the order of 10-minutes as far as i’m concerned but the more merciful are thinking in terms of a couple of years and no pay. all voluntary postings, followed by meaningful employment.

here’s another little surprise from the colonies. i don’t personally know a living person that asked, wanted or supports this government’s socialization of american debt. the complete absolution of their own stupidity. you cannot image the anger that exists here, not for you good people of this world – for our own government.

i don’t doubt your zeros on the debt. obama isn’t going to do anything about all that debt. mccain won’t either. but fear yea not fellow peon, we’ll keep working to the bone over here so you’re interest payments are quite secure. all the rhetoric is just that, political banter for votes who both candidates will immediately abandon upon their election.

your accounting appears quite accurate. its your science that could use a tune-up.

 

My science

I am working on it. Actually I am a bit ashamed about what I stated yesterday about politics. Never let an engineer do any politics because they can't.

 

OK!

Here's my penny's worth. Before humans arrived the planet was ok. There have been ice ages and warm periods granted. However the time between these events is measured in thousands of years rather than a couple of generations.

When the North pole was discovered they trekked for weeks across the ice to get there. Now a days the trip is substantially shorter. The polar bears never had a problem with their habit either.

The truth is always subjective. Politicians manipulate facts, or employ scientists in favor of one theory or another for their research. So those societies which carry on with huge oil burning industries etc may well be under the impression that it's not having an effect.

Final thought - if we actually gave up the combustion engine in favor of alternative energy we would have done too little too late

 

No Chris !

Where are the dyno's ? Don't blame humans, we have little control over the earth's path through the galaxy.

If you consider the path it has to go through , it is a miracle's miracle that it has survived this long. Just a slight out of timing may very well swing little earth out of it's path, resulting in a ball of fire en route to some huge planet's gravity...

You forget one thing, everything is speeding up.

 

All this hype and fear-mongering from idiots who buy into this "global warming" crap just makes me want to remove the catalytic converter from my truck.

 

almost as bad as the idiots that thinks it will all get better if we do nothing huh

 

Boatpride wrote:

>Before humans arrived the planet was ok.

False. unless you consider nature, oceans and land mass systems totally destroying themselves and starting over every eon or so "ok". Nature destroying itself is the normal state of affairs for our plant. The only planets that do not change much are ones that are stone cold dead with no water or atmosphere. But even they get hit by meteors.

>There have been ice ages and warm periods granted. However the time between these events is measured in thousands of years rather than a couple of generations.

False. Recent research on ancient past changes indicates that sudden and dramatic temperature changes, both to warmer and colder climates, occur over only a few decades. This baffled all the climatologists because they have no working model to show how that can happen. I have seen the studies, go find them for yourself.

>When the North pole was discovered they trekked for weeks across the ice to get there. Now a days the trip is substantially shorter. The polar bears never had a problem with their habit either.

Some areas of arctic ice are enlarging, so this is not a complete picture. Some areas of melting ice are uncovering ancient human villages, indicating that the area was once much warmer in the human past. Also Polar bears can swim up to 500 miles looking for food, no problem at all. And the North pole once had pine forests, and go back far enough and you find palm trees. I have found palm tree fragments and fossils in Washington state in the Cascade mountains above timber line. So this kind of temp change is normal.

>The truth is always subjective.

Only to those that are ignorant of real science.

>So those societies which carry on with huge oil burning industries etc may well be under the impression that it's not having an effect.

No one says there is no effect, the question is how much of an effect. All the data shows at best only a little, or not even measurable. So why would you wreck an industry and the world economy without hard proof that it would even be beneficial. It is not that climate change is not real, the question is what is the cause, and is there anything we can do about it? All of the hard data says: not likely there is much we can do to stop it.

>Final thought - if we actually gave up the combustion engine in favor of alternative energy we would have done too little too late.

Whaa??? even alternatives give off waste heat, CO2 and other impacts. Even breathing gives off CO2. You can not convert fuel or potential energy of any type to mechanical or electrical power without losses. It is call the laws of Thermal dynamics. It is called entropy. IF you do not understand it (and most do not), you would not ask such as silly and meaningless questions. The facts of our planet's climatic history shows that even if you kill every human and animal that uses energy and breaths out and farts methane and CO2, you will not stop climate change. So why waste time, money, resources or talent on it? It is already "too late" since you can not stop it no matter what you give up.

 

For somewhat I agree with you but what you say is not new.

There is a book of a geologist Salomon Kroonenberg who is a professor in Delft University of Technology who wrote The Human Measure where the rise and decline of ocean levels are described on a geological timescale.

http://www.salomonkroonenberg.nl/doc/TheHumanMeasure.pdf

In the same book he also describes the three climatologically seasons the earth went through (desert age , carbon age, arctic age) with what we have right now we are heading to carbon age at best and to desert age at worst. and we can do little about it. So far you are right.

What we can do is having international law on emissions of Carbon Dioxide which will diminish our part in climate change. Hundreds of scientifically proven other means of Carbon dioxide reduction are given as well: one is to use CO2 as gas to remove oils and gas from reservoir which any oil company will do if asked to. Another one is to go to nuclear fusion as quickly as possible: http://www.iter.org/

Another one is going as quickly as we can to solar energy. China is already planning to have half of their Gobi desert designated to solar energy power plants which is proven technology. When they succeed they do not longer rely on fossilised energy sources like coal and oil. If governments would build facilities like that they would be able to reach the emission control as described in the Kyoto protocol. And these are sustainable energy sources as well. One that will give our future generations a reliable source of energy for their civilisation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainable_energy

 

Did you know that only by breathing humankind produces around 2,500 millions of tons of CO2 a year, amount quite bigger than the Kyoto Protocol agreed reduction, which is of about 1,000 millions of tons, roughly a 5% of 1990 emissions?

So....another way to comply with Kyoto is by slaughtering around 2,400 billions of people.....

Cheers.

 

I appreciate your feedback Petros. Clearly you feel there are those of us "ignorant" to your perfect science studies. As i am sure you will agree - it is possible to find scientific research to back up a very wide range of issues. Please explain the lobbying system in the US government.

 

Oh Boy, If I'd have known that I'd need to quote the guy, or where the facts would lead; I'd have taken notes. Anyway here's the jist of it. A geological scientist on a TV scientific program was impressed with the kind of ice core data that is cited in this thread. He thought he'd check and find collaborative data from the rock record to confirm that periods of global warming were ushered in by rises in greenhouse gasses like CO2 and methane. I guess he was also interested in going where the money was. Gettin' on the bandwagon - so to speak. Anyway, as he went to the geological layers that correspond to known warming events; he was surprised. The rock layer did not confirm the hypothesis! So, he began looking for a link that denoted the onset of known warm periods. What he did find was surprising. There were definite periods where the crystallization denoted growth during periods of intense gamma ray bombardment on a scale that would have to come from the sun. They were spaced periodically and coincided roughly with the eleven and a half year sun spot cycle. Not every cycle mind you, but in sync with the cycles. I forget the period except that they were spaced far apart and that the next one is due. The funny thing though, is that these periods of intense gamma ray radiation did not usher in global warming events but ICE AGES!!!!!! That's right, before EVERY large scale ice age the sun was turned on HI HEAT. Not so in the mini ice ages like after Krakatoa's pop off, but in the big ones like when Texas had glaciers miles thick and the sea dropped to create the land bridge from Russia. The theory now, is that intense periods of Solar storms blow a Solar wind of sufficient force to fold our magnetosphere back and thin our Sun-ward atmosphere sufficiently to allow massive amounts of heat to radiate into space! Yipes! The onset of these largest ice ages is so sudden that they propagate in less than a decade, possibly; much less. Remember the Woolly Mammoth found frozen, sitting upright with buttercups in his teeth! He may have been nearly flash frozen. Global Warming? I ain't scared! Replant the rain forests (most of the world's rain used to come from there), irrigate and plant the deserts (they love CO2), use white - not black asphalt and roofs (I ride my Harley into any town and feel the difference, 15 degrees sometimes) and OK already, we do need to clean up our engines and use more Green Energy. We can DO SOMETHING to help cool us down. Turn down the burner on the Sun - I don't think so!!!!!!

 

Makes sense to me!

Q) Why do measured increases in Co2 always FOLLOW warming trends?
A) Because warmer air can hold more CO2! Of course!
Q) Why has the ozone hole disappeared?
A) It hasn't disappeared but has decreased in size and changed shape. Probably a harbinger of the destabilization of the magnetosphere and it's impending flip. There has always been a hole in the ozone layer at the Arctic North Pole! At least since the last time the magnetic pole flipped. Before that, it was also at the North Pole which, at that time; was where the south pole is now. When it flips again, the hole will immediately close and a new one will rapidly open at the new North Pole in the Antarctic. Like forces repel, remember? Ozone is a positively charged molecule and is repelled by the north (+) pole of any magnet. The scientists who study the ozone hole have always known this. Didn't you? Didn't they tell you? BEWARE THE SCIENTIST WITH GEO/POLITICAL AMBITIONS. THEY LIE!!
Q) Why has the seasonal return of Arctic ice not been reported in the media?
A) The media is allied with the scientists, Obama and anyone else whom they think might actually succeed in taking over the world.
Oh Me! Suddenly I don't feel too cheery.

 

And that is not even counting the farts of methane coming out the other end!

 

Well this is far from science, but i think it can be explained by the amount of money our government spends. With that much being thrown around by drunken congressmen, you will have all kinds of special interest groups with the hands out hoping to catch some of it.

For example, included with the much hyped economic recovery bill, the so-called banking system bail-out, was also millions "ear marked" for wooden arrow shaft makers, mental health care, money for refurbishing local horse racing facilities, bike path construction, and rum producers. All these worthy causes would not received our tax money without dedicated lobbyists plying their craft.

And I am sure there was probably something in there for climate change studies too. Without public awareness, it would be difficult our congress to justify spending our hard earned tax money on these committed scientists and social engineers to justify their careers.

 

Mad dogs & Englishmen

http://www.staff.livjm.ac.uk/spsbpeis/LTTPeiser-Nov08.pdf

Hat tip to http://web.mac.com/sinfonia1/Global...tries/2008/11/14_Mad_Dogs_And_Englishmen.html