My new project needing advice

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by rideaubill, Oct 30, 2008.

  1. rideaubill
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: Kemptville, ontario

    rideaubill Junior Member

    Hi all, being new here I will introduce myself as well as post my thread. I'm Bill from eastern ontario, I have for quite sometime built and restored canoes, well I am graduating to a 1958 1000's islands utility boat.

    Attaching a couple pics, again I am new at powerboat restoration so looking for some tips. Mainly as to how to treat the hull, the boat has been out of the water for two summers and is of a double planked construction. I don't know if i should just clean it up swell and caulk it, or do I do a whole epoxy thing to it.

    I would think the topside would be sanded, re-stained and varnished with coat after coat, is there better ways?
    One side plank to reattach and a top deck piece to add, engine is good all mechanics are there.

    Thanks in advance for your help.

    bill on the Rideau
     

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  2. KnottyBuoyz
    Joined: Jul 2006
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    Location: Iroquois, Ontario

    KnottyBuoyz Provocateur & Raconteur

    Hi Bill

    Rick here in Iroquois. I'm not a wooden boat restorer but I know a fella down this way that might be able to help. Next time I've over to the yard I'll see if he's there. He's rebuilt a 30 something foot trawler (all wood) and definitely knows what he's doing.

    There's Aylings boatyard in Merrickville where they do a lot of restorations. Might be worth your while to take a trip to the Antique Boat Museum in Clayton NY. http://www.abm.org/
     
  3. rideaubill
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: Kemptville, ontario

    rideaubill Junior Member

    Thanks Rick:

    yup know all about the ABM, member actually. Itès good to live in this area as there are many restorers locally, and you can bet Ièll pick there brains :) but also wondering what advise I can get on this forum.

    bill
     
  4. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    If it's a typical double planked hull the planks aren't caulked, but edge set, glued and fastened to the inner layer and structural members. The usual course is to renew the fasteners and their holes (or use new ones). Double planked hulls can tolerate more neglect then carvel (the single planked hulls that are caulked) so not to worry so much about her being on the hard all this time.

    Hire a boat carpenter to have a look see. There are lots of places the novice just will not know were to stick a flashlight (or scratch awl). They can give you a good idea of it condition and requirements. A full survey would be wise if you intend to toss serious money at it (this style of boat will suck you wallet dry faster then a shop vac).
     
  5. rideaubill
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: Kemptville, ontario

    rideaubill Junior Member

    so is my course of action is to strip the hull check for loose fasteners then repaint. take it I would only caulk where it leaks (if so) after swelling the wood? I guess where I am coming from is that hull work scares me, all the above water work , mechanical etc Is something I have done but I really know nothing about redoing a hull or if I have other options.

    Just got the boat home...Boy it's bigger in my yard ha!
     
  6. KnottyBuoyz
    Joined: Jul 2006
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    Location: Iroquois, Ontario

    KnottyBuoyz Provocateur & Raconteur

    Hey Bill

    This is my buddy "Bob's" boat. It's a converted wooden fishing trawler. He did the restoration and all repairs himself. I watched him replace the keel (over 35' long) this year completely by himself and most of the transom last year. Wish I had been paying more attention though so I could help you out. I do distinctly remember him saying he's treated all the planking with epoxy prior to painting and I believe any caulking he's used is synthetic. He's probably got his boat put up for the winter but I'll go see if he's around tonight.

    [​IMG]

    From what I remember it isn't that big a deal to pull a plank, treat it and refasten it. I remember him doing this plank by plank, one at a time instead of ripping them all off. It's a good job that doesn't look too complicated and is a good opportunity to check out the internal structure(s).

    The only part I'm not sure I could handle is the recaulking but I don't know what it is he's using. I believe the exterior paint he uses on the bottom is readily available International Paints that you can get at the Chandlery in Ottawa.

    My wife has standing orders, if I ever contemplate buying an old wooden boat, she has permission to slap me upside the head! ;-)
     
  7. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Double planked hulls aren't caulked like carvel hulls (single plank). Double planked hulls have an outer layer of planking, typically 2/3's the total thickness of all the planking. The inner layer is often a less desirable wood to save money. A well built double planked hull will have it's outer planking fastened to the structural elements, the inner planking generally is fastened to the outer from inside. Occasionally you'll see through bolts, piercing the frames and both layers of planking. Most double planked hulls will have some sort of bedding treatment between the two planking layers. This could be one of several things, such as tar, tar and rosin paper, shellac, varnish, thickened oil paint or other oil based bedding compound and combinations of each.

    Epoxy only works if the separate pieces are completely coated, including fastener holes. If not, you're just using an expensive paint with no UV protection. In repair and restoration work on traditionally built craft, epoxy has limited uses for this reason.

    Rideaubill, remove the paint over the fastener heads and check the tightness of the fasteners. If a double planked hull is leaking, the fasteners for sure have gone south and need replacement, unless there's some un-seen damage accounting for the leaks. If you have to remove a large number of fasteners (not uncommon) then you should also check the condition between the planking layers. When you get to this stage, give us a yell and we'll let you know what you've got. On a boat of this age, generally you can expect some planking replacement and all of the fasteners.
     
  8. rideaubill
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: Kemptville, ontario

    rideaubill Junior Member

    Thank you Par! will do, was hoping to have some time off this week with the great weather but "not to be" up here in Canada, the weather is a changing :) Your email was of great value for me to start with.

    As I said previously I have an amout of experience with smaller boats, canoes, kayaks and glue and stick but this has been my first mahogany classic.

    I've gone out and bought The Complete Wooden Runabout Restoration looks like a good start too. If the weather keeps up I will start stripping the hull to see what i can see. Is it best to scrape the paint off or use strippers, don't know if that would cause damage to the older wood?

    Thanks again fro the help to get this great project started!

    Bill
     
  9. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Chemicals can cause other issues, like getting in and on places you don't want or need it. Scrape and sand, you're elbows will love you for it.
     
  10. David55cobra
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Location: California

    David55cobra Junior Member

    Chris Craft seemed to use (always?) a layer of canvas which might have been treated between the two layers of bottom planking. I always stripped the paint off the bottom and sides ( scrapping and sanding ) and then pulled plugs/putty from the screws and tightened 'em up - not to the point that they sucked up into the wood, rather just snug to pull the plank into place. Any screws that look degraded will have to be replaced with the same material fastener ( its best not to mix up silicone bronze and stainless fasteners on the same boat I'm told). When the wood swells back up, it will tend to tighted up the screws the rest of the way without splitting the plank. Hull sides and deck got the same treatment, then block sanded by hand starting with 60 grit paper to get the plank edges flat and straight with each other, then more and more and more sanding with finer grits until I got to 180. After that first block sanding with 60 grit (sometimes at odd angles to flatten out the plank edges ) always sand with the grain on the succesively finer and finer grits - any cross-wise sanding marks in the wood will reallllllly show up with a filler stain, and by that point, its too late without going backwards.
    Hope this helps a little
     
  11. Kazulin
    Joined: Jan 2003
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    Location: British Colombia Canada

    Kazulin Junior Member

    Hello Bill:
    E-mail me at info@kazulinboats.com with specific questions.
    We design and build our own boats, but have restored quite a few classics (mainly Riva). I am also in Eastern Ontario, and have no problem with someone "picking my brain".
    Good luck and Happy Holidays
    Tony
     
  12. rideaubill
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: Kemptville, ontario

    rideaubill Junior Member

    Thanks Tony!

    I will keep your email!

    As all of us in Canada knows it's gotten to cold to be working outside. (my project it tarped rather than in a garage 
    I’ve been working on the chrome and metal as well as cleaning floor boards etc by taking them inside to work on of late. Had cleaned out the bilge and removed all the dirt before winter.

    I do have a question for all. I removed the boat from the trailer and blocked it a month ago. At that time I started a bit of scrapping work on the peeling varnish and the hull. The hull was painted. As I scrapped through a few layers it was bronzed beneath. Should I be removing the bronze layer or stop there and recoat? If I should keep going is there a better or more practical method to remove the layer?
     
  13. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Generally, it's not necessary to remove all the paint or coatings, just the damaged stuff at the surface. If it's stuck good and requires considerable effort to remove, you're wasting your time, just feather out the edges, putty were necessary and paint again.
     
  14. rideaubill
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: Kemptville, ontario

    rideaubill Junior Member

    Thanks Par?

    no concerns of looking at the condition of the fasteners? I would need to remove all finish to get to them right?..should I also remove all the caulk, or just add it to missing places?
     

  15. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Naturally, in areas where you need to get down to bare wood, you'll have to grind away.

    If you have caulk in the seams, it shouldn't be there and is an indication of a piss poor attempts at repair, by someone not familiar with the construction type. These attempts almost always fail, because the root cause hasn't been addressed.

    If you have big seams, then the planks need to be repaired or replaced. Some times you can repair a plank with a wedge of the same material, glued in place to restore the edge. If the edges of the planks all look like they have gaps of various width, then the planking has been moving and you've got fastener and other issues.

    Planking is a consumable item, just like the air filter on your car. It's designed to be replaced when it wears out. You can doctor it up for a while, but eventually you don't have a choice. After a half a century, you got 'ta know what's coming, right.

    Rest assured, some if not all of the exterior planking will need to be renewed, possibly some interior as well. You will not know until you start getting deep into it.

    Again, I strongly recommend you have a qualified carpenter or surveyor have a look see, so you have a clue about where to start and what you have to deal with.
     
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