Low price Catamarans

Important disclaimer:

1. We design most of RB boats since December 2006, two 34' catamarans launched and about to launch 60' motoryacht.

2. To avoid any misunderstanding please note that all boats started in constrcution by RB before early 2007 are not our designs.

Namely, these boats are NOT our designs:

- 42' (45?) black hull, silver/teak deck sailing catamaran;
- 42' sailing catamaran 'Island breeze', white color;
- 40' open 'sandbag carrier catamaran', yellow color;

Some photos of these boats have been posted in this thread and these boats are being claimed here. Please do not ask us questions on these boats, they are not under our responsibility.

3. Yes, we develop the designs according to ISO 'Small Craft' group of standards. Yes, we use software for engineering and CE-assessment of our designs, namely software from R.I.N.a. (using 12217, 12216 and all systems checklists) and Wolfson Unit (using 12215-5).

Regards,
Albert
www.amdesign.co.th

 

RB Power & Sailing ISO 9001-2000

Dear Nordic Cat


RB Power and Sailing and *****'s Sailing Center Co.;Ltd . is the same company .

To be precise ,as it seems that you are willing to know all the details , there are 3 companies :

*****'s Sailing Center Co.;Ltd. that owns the real estate

Clapham Co.;Ltd. running the financial management ;

RB Power & Sailing , just being registered , that sometime in the future , will incorporate all the others and will operate as group of companies .


The reason of this partition is related to the fast growing of the operation , that requires now many foreigners employed , with their work permits and considering the limitations of the thai system , we decided to proceed in a certain way . Now, we are one more time , modifying the structure .

It could be possible that the ISO management system that is employed now , will be modified , probably expanded , in a near future .


Regards


RB

 

RB Power & Sailing

Dear Nordic Cat , dear All ,

i don't know how to explain simplier then this :

we don't design our boat directly , we are not certified for design as we don't design , we don't employ any designer and only a draftman for minor works

I built boats designed by many designers :


The 36' cat in attachment from Angelo Lavranos

from Bruce Roberts

Arch Davis

Sam Devlin

Phil Bolger

James Wharram

Tom Mc Naughton


and so many , more and less famous .

Recently we switched all the design work with Albatross Marine Design that is NOT the designer of many boats of the past times .

As he wrote in a previous post , the original Island Breeze 42' and another 45 are NOT his designs ( as i said and explained a docen of times )

About our ISO 9001-2000


Dear Nordic Cat ,

your words : RB states that they use an ISO approved software package for scantling design.

Where we state this ?

This certificate is only a registration, not a valid approval

These are your words , Nordic Cat , not mine . What you mean , is a mistery for me .

I attached the certificate so can have a look .

How can be misleading ?



Your words :

In Europe and the USA this would lead to severe action against you and your company for false claims.


Here you going too far ; i invite you to reconsider this last sentence . But do it soon .

Regards


***** **********

 

Threats as a response to critical staements??

Dear RB,

You have answered above, the ISO approval you have is not for the company building boats as far as I understand it, and it does not cover this anyway.

Your ISO "certificate" is not issued under an accredited scheme such as UKAS or any other accredited audit scheme, in reality it is just a piece of paer sayig that you are working according ti ISO, and not what is normally defined as ISO approved. If you were working through an accredited scheme, the auditing company's logo and registration number must be on the certificate.

Conclusion:
The RB power and sail website states that you are ISO 9001 approved, which you are not.

This is a false claim. I will therefore not retract my statement despite your implied threats.

It's "interesting" to note your friendly approach to these questions, in fact this makes me even more sympathetic to some of the customer claims that have been put forward here....


May I suggest you speak to someone who knows and understands this subject to help you get the full picture regarding ISO 9001 approval. Maybe get in touch with the relevant Thai authorities and ask who is accredited to supply this certification in Thailand. The company you have used do not seem to be. Try the ministry of Trade or its equivalent....

 

RB Power & Sailing

Dear Nordic Cat


i forwarded your accusation to SCW International Certification Co. ; Ltd .

they certified a number of huge companies in Thailand , and they will not accept these accusations for sure .

i really don't mind as i know what we have done and what we got here .

notice and remember that you bothered a big dog with heavy accusations .

Regards

RB

 

I will look forward to hearing from them!

Quote" notice and remember that you bothered a big dog with heavy accusations." Unquote

Just a side note; I train dogs, and know how to handle them, even mongrels..

If you are wrong, will you also post here and apologise for threatening, as well as align your marketing with the truth and facts?

When can I expect to hear from SCW International Certification Co. ; Ltd ? I hope you post their full answer here.

 

Rb Iso 9001-2000

Answer from SCW International Certification Co.;Ltd. :


Dear Mr. *****,

I quite sure for my business has complied to the regulations , you can check your information in the www.globalcertification .com, select United Kingdom, select ,Certification check ,then add your registration no. from your certificate ,you can know your status in the system .

I did not understand what's happen?,pls make clear below.

Now , there are 2 companies as complied to Thai law ,( Effective on 19/9/2008)

1. SCW International Certification Co.,Ltd. is a training company ,do only training business ( Not certification Body)

2.GCS International Registra Co.,Ltd.,is a company for assessment services of ISO 9001,ISO 14001 or related standard and is a subcontractor of GLOBAL CERTIFICATION LIMITED, My HQ is in Malaysia,is an operation country.

This company has involved for the collection of assessment and licence fee from GLOBAL as you used to pay in this year .THIS IS THE REASON WHY ALL MY CUSTOMERS HAVE TO PAY THE LICENCE FEE OR CERTIFICATION FEE BY THEMSELVE ( You can check your last invoice) , to ensure your status .

The Certification Body that certified you is GLOBAL not SCW or GCS , these 2 companies have concerned only the collection of money as complied to Thai Law and Thai tax regulation.

Hope that you will understand my explanation and keep in touch.

I have faxed for SCW ana GCS Registration and scope of business in Thai Government to you,pls check.


Regards,

Chanyaporn

 

WRcedar not a tropical species

Hi Richard, You are probably correct re: not a tropical species. At this point I am trying to get confirmation/opinion on what species of wood are in the pics.
Yes, spruce and fir are the usual wood for masts in north america. But I'd rather not import logs to Thailand if the mast can be engineered (adjust mast diameter and wall thickness) to accomodate the local species.

cheers
rself

 

*****,

As you can see, he does not answer ANY of the statements I made.

Ask him what accredited certifying body has approved your quality system.
The "mother company" in the UK is UKAS approved, but your certificate does not have the UKAS logo and accreditation number.

Now he tells you that the name of the certifying company on the certificate is not the one certifying you, so what did you pay for that worthless piece of paper?

I could just as well sell you a nice certificate, without full traceability to an accredited company that is approved by the government to do these audits, it is useless.

Your certificate still does NOT cover the building of boats, nor is it for the company that builds them.


Maybe the big dog got done by a smarter one?

Keep us posted.

 

oh...now this thread get interesting, finally talks about boats,
"Tuna Celia" it is the name of this wood, knows also commercially as Australian Red Cedar.
...some info...:
Scientific name Cedrela Toona

Trade Name
Toon

Family Name
Meliaceae

Synonyms (other common names)
Toona australis
Toona surenii
Cedrela febrifuga
Cedrela toona

Common Names
Australian cedar
Australian red cedar
Australian red-cedar
Belandi
Bobich
Burm
Burma cedar
Cedre rouge
Cedro
Chikado
Devdari
Drawi
Epi
Goria nim
Grawa
Henduri poma
Horeni
Huruk
Indian cedar
Ingoe
Kalkilingi
Kapere
Kashitka
Katangai
Kempu gandagheri
Ki beureum
Kujya
Kuruk
Ladet
Linoe
Lud
Madagiri vembu
Mafus
Maha limbu
Mahalimo
Mahanim
Maharim
Mahlun
Mali
Moulmein cedar
Moulmem cedar
Mufus
Ni
Noge
Poma
Queensland red cedar
Red cedar
Redani
Sandani vembu
Shuruzbed
Simal
Soeren
Somso
Soren
Suli
Suntang putch
Tawtama
Thitkado
Todu
Toon
Toona
Tseekado
Tundu
Tuni
Vedi vembu
Yom hom
Yomhom
Yomhorm
Youhom
Youhorm

Regions of Distribution
Africa
Oceania and S.E. Asia

Countries of Distribution:
Australia
Burma
Hawaii [US]
India
Indonesia
Kenya
Laos
Myanmar
Pakistan
Papua New Guinea
South Africa
Tanzania
Thailand
Uganda

Common Uses:
Baskets
Bedroom suites
Bent Parts
Blinds
Boat building (general)
Boat building
Boxes and crates
Building materials
Cabinetmaking
Canoes
Carvings
Casks
Chairs
Chests
Cigar boxes
Clogs
Concealed parts (Furniture)
Decorative plywood
Decorative veneer
Desks
Dining-room furniture
Door
Dowell pins
Dowells
Drawer sides
Drum sticks
Excelsior
Exterior trim & siding
Exterior uses
Figured veneer
Fine furniture
Flooring: industrial heavy traffic
Food containers
Furniture
Furniture
Interior trim
Joinery (external): ground contact
Joinery
Light construction
Matches
Mine timbers
Model airplanes
Musical instruments
Musical instruments
Ornamental work
Packing cases
Paneling
Paneling
Planks
Plywood
Poles
Pulp/Paper products
Shingles
Shutters
Sporting Goods
Turnery
Vehicle parts
Veneer
Veneer: decorative
Windows

Environmental Profile
**** Abundant/Secure
* Rare

* Secure in many areas of its range (Cambodia)


Distribution Overview
India and Burma as well as scattered in evergreen and moist, mixed deciduous forests throughout Southeast Asia including Australia.

Heartwood Color
******* Yellow
****** Brown
***** Orange
**** Green/grey
** Red
* Grey

********** Reddish brown
***** Red
** Pale red to pink
* Dark brown
The heartwood is pale brown, cedar brown, dark red brown, or brick red when first cut. It darkens upon exposure to a rich reddish brown with darker brown streaks

Sapwood Color
***** White
***** Yellow
** Red

*** White to yellow
* Paler than heartwood


Grain
******** Straight
***** Figure
*** Interlocked
** Closed
** Even
** Distinct (figure)
** Growth rings (figure)
* Wavy
* Other (figure)


******* Straight
** Interlocked
** Distinct figure
** Clear growth rings (figure)
* Wavy
* Straight to interlocked
* Other figure
Quartersawn surfaces are reported to show fiddleback or ribbon-like figures.

Texture
*** Medium
*** Fine
*** Coarse

*** Coarse
** Medium to coarse
* Uneven
The texture is moderately close

Luster
******* Lustrous


Natural Growth Defects
* Whitish deposits in vessels
Essels are often filled with gummy deposits.

Natural Durability
*** Non-durable
** Perishable

********* Durable
****** Moderately durable
**** Susceptible to attack from powder post (Lyctid & Bostrychid) beetles
*** Susceptible to attack from termites (Isoptera)
* Resistant to attack from termites (Isoptera)
* Pinworms (ambrosia beetles) are commonly present
* Non durable
* Moderately resistant to termite (Isoptera) attack
* Moderately resistant to decay
The wood is moderately resistant to attack by insects, but is susceptible to attack by drywood termites, Anobium borers, and Lyctus. In Australia, trees are often attacked by Hypsipyla robusta . Plantation material has very little natural resistance to attack by decay fungi

Odor
The wood has a strong, fragrant, long-lasting spicy odor. It has no characteristic taste.

Light-Induced Color Change
**** Darker


Toxicity
* Dermatitic effects


Kiln Schedules
* Kiln Drying Rate (in days) is rapid
* Drying (speed) is fast
* Dry at a slow speed


Drying Defects
** Discoloration
** Distortion

****** Moderate twist/warp
*** Moderate cupping
** Slight surface checking
** Moderate collapse and honeycombing
* Slight cupping
* Slight collapse and honeycomb
* Collapse
Collapse may be quite appreciable, especially near knots, but the wood can be reconditioned. The trees are usually girdled and quickly converted after harvesting to avoid degrade

Ease of Drying
*** Rapidly
** Reconditioning Treatement
* Fairly Easy

*** Easy
* Moderate
* Dries at a fairly rapid rate
The wood should be kiln dried and allowed to condition while spacing stickers closely and weighting the stacks

Kiln Drying Rate
* Rapid (<10 days for boards < 32 mm, to <30 days for boards >= 63 mm)


Tree Identification
*** Bole/stem form is buttressed
** Bole/stem form is straight
** Bole/stem form is cylindrical
* Bole/stem form is fluted


Tree Size
** Tree height is 10-20 m
* Tree height is 0-10 m
* Tree height is 40-50 m


Certified Source
** Certified Source


Comments
Brittleheart and tension wood may be present

General finishing qualities are rated as good

Blunting Effect
*** Moderate

* Blunting effect on machining is slight
* Blunting effect on machining is moderate


Boring
*** Fairly easy to very easy
** Fair to good results


Carving
** Fair to Good Results
** Fairly Easy to Very Easy
* Very Good to Excellent Results

* Good carving qualities


Cutting Resistance
*** Cutting Resistance with green wood is easy
** Cutting Resistance with dry wood is easy
* Easy to saw
Plantation material saws easily, but growth stresses can cause end-splitting and springing in logs

Gluing
**** Fairly Easy to Very Easy
*** Fair to Good Results

** Moderate gluing properties
* Glues satisfactorily
* Easy to glue


Mortising
** Fair to Good Results


Moulding
** Poor to Very Poor Results
* Fairly Difficult to Very Difficult


Movement in Service
** Fair to Good Stability - Medium Movement

* Stable


Nailing
***** Fair to Good Results
*** Pre-Boring Recommended

** Holds satisfactorily
** Easy to nail


Planing
**** Fairly Easy to Very Easy
*** Fair to Good Results
** Fairly Difficult to Very Difficult

* Slight dulling of cutters
* Ease of planing is moderate
Very sharp cutting edges are recommended for best results in machining quartersawn material

Resistance to Impregnation
*** Permeable sapwood
*** Resistant heartwood
** Resistant sapwood

** Sapwood is permeable
** Heartwood is resistant
** Heartwood is permeable
* Sapwood is moderately resistant
* Heartwood is moderately resistant
* Heartwood is extremely resistant
Heartwood permeability varies from permeable to resistant to impregnation

Response to Hand Tools
***** Easy to machine


Sanding
* Good sanding finish
Some material may produce a woolly finish

Screwing
*** Fair to Good Results
** Pre-boring recommended

** Easy to screw
* Screwing yields satisfactory results
* Fair screwing qualities (expect < 70% of screwed pieces to be free from complete splits)


Turning
**** Fairly Easy to Very Easy
*** Fair to Good Results
** Poor to Very Poor Results
** Fairly Difficult to Very Difficult

* Good results
* Easy to turn


Veneering Qualities
Pieces sliced into veneers are reported to often have a fine silver-grain ray figure

Steam Bending
****** Fair to Good Results

* Poor


Painting
** Very Good to Excellent Results
* Fair to Good Results

The material takes both water and oil-based paints well.

Polishing
*** Fair to Good Results

*** Good results
** Satisfactory results


Staining
*** Very Good to Excellent Results
** Fairly Easy to Very Easy

* Stains well
* Finish is generally satisfactory


Varnishing
** Very Good to Excellent Results


Strength Properties
*********+ Density (dry weight) = 23-30 lbs/cu. ft.
********** Modulus of Elasticity (stiffness) = very low
********** Bending strength (MOR) = low
******** Density (dry weight) = 31-37 lbs/cu. ft.
******* Max. crushing strength = low
****** Shrinkage, Radial = very small
****** Shrinkage, Radial = small
***** Max. crushing strength = medium
***** Density (dry weight) = 38-45 lbs/cu. ft.
**** Shrinkage, Tangential = very small
**** Shrinkage, Tangential = small
**** Shearing strength (parallel to grain) = very low
*** Shrinkage, Tangential = moderate
*** Shearing strength (parallel to grain) = low
*** Bending strength (MOR) = medium
** Modulus of Elasticity (stiffness) = low
** Hardness (side grain) = very soft
** Hardness (side grain) = soft
** Density (dry weight) = 46-52 lbs/cu. ft.
** Density (dry weight) = 15-22 lbs/cu. ft.
* Weight = medium
* Modulus of Elasticity (stiffness) = high
* Hardness = medium
* Compression strength (parallel to grain) = low
* Bending strength (MOR) = high
The wood has high density and resists denting and marring about as well as white oak or birch

Numerical Data
Item Green Dry English

Bending Strength 7003 11071 psi
Density 33 lbs/ft3
Hardness 802 lbs
Maximum Crushing Strength 3522 5542 psi
Shearing Strength 1159 psi
Stiffness 1120 1346 1000 psi
Specific Gravity 0.38 0.47
Weight 31 25 lbs/ft3
Radial Shrinkage 3 %
Tangential Shrinkage 5 %
Volumetric Shrinkage 11 %

Item Green Dry Metric

Bending Strength 492 778 kg/cm2
Density 528 kg/m3
Hardness 363 kg
Maximum Crushing Strength 247 389 kg/cm2
Shearing Strength 81 kg/cm2
Stiffness 78 94 1000 kg/cm2
Specific Gravity 0.38 0.47
Weight 496 400 kg/m3
Radial Shrinkage 3 %
Tangential Shrinkage 5 %
Volumetric Shrinkage 11 %


References
Ali, M.O., Yakub, M.D. and Bhattacharjee, D.K.,1972,Physical and mechanical properties of Toon, Bhadi and Eucalyptus,Bangladesh FRI, Chittagong Bulletin 3 Timber Physics Series

Australia - N.S.W. Forestry Commission,1988,Furniture Timbers of New South Wales,Forest Commission, N.S.W., Aust. Tech. Publication No.1

Banks, C.H., Schoeman, J.P., Otto, K.P.,1977,The Mechanical Properties of Timbers with particular reference to South,Africa,South African Forestry Research Institute Bulletin,(Ed.,Schoeman, J.P. 1973 & Otto K.P. 1976,No.48

Boas, I.H.,1947,The Commercial Timbers of Australia - Their Properties and Uses,Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, Melbourne

Bolza, E., Kloot, N.H.,1976,The Mechanical Properties of 81 New Guinea Timbers,C.S.I.R.O. Div. Building Res. Tec.Paper (2nd series) 11

Bolza, E.,1975,Properties and Uses of 175 Timber Species from Papua New Guinea and West,Irian,C.S.I.R.O. Div. Building Research Report,no.34

Bootle, K.R.,1971,The Commercial Timbers of New South Wales and their use,Angus & Robertson (publishers) PTY Ltd

Brown, W.H.,1978,Timbers of the World, No. 8 Australasia,TRADA, Red Booklet Series

Cameron, S.,1945,Some Notes on Utilisation of Timbers in the South-West Pacific,New Zealand Journal of Forestry Volume 5(2) 117-127

Carrapiett, J.B.,1960,Notes on ornamental timbers of Burma,Burmese Forester,10(1,pp37-53

Chudnoff, M.,1984,Tropical Timbers of the World,U.S.A. Department of Agriculture, Forest Service, Forest Products,Laboratory, Madison.

Da Costa, E.W.B., Osborne, L.D.,1967,Comparative decay resistance of 26 New Guinea timber species in,accelerated laboratory tests,Comm. Forestry Review 46(1) pp63-74

Desch, H.E.,1948,The Cedars,Wood 13(2) pp40-3

EcoTimber International, San Francisco, California. Personal Communication, 1993.

Eddowes, P. J. 1977. Commercial Timbers of Papua New Guinea - Their Properties and Uses. Forest Products Research Center, Office of Forests, Department of Primary Industry, Papua New Guinea.

Eddowes, P.J.,1977,Commercial Timbers of Papua New Guinea: Their Properties and Uses,Hebano Press, Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea

Gay, F.J., Et al,1955,Standard laboratory colonies of termites for evaluating the resistance of,timber, timber preservatives and other materials to termite attack.,C.S.I.R.O., Australia Bulletin,No.277

Howard, A.L.,1948,A Manual of Timbers of the World.,Macmillan & Co. Ltd. London 3rd ed.

Keating, W.G., Bolza, E.,1982,Characteristics properties and uses of timbers. South East Asia, Northern,Australia and the Pacific,C.S.I.R.O. Div. Chemical Technology,Inkata Press,1

Kraemer, J.H.,1951,Trees of the Western Pacific Region,West Lafayette, Indiana U.S.A.

Limaye, V. D. 1954. Grouping of Indian Timbers and their Properties, Uses and Suitability. Indian Forest Records, New Series. Timber Mechanics, Vol. 1, No. 2, Forest Research Institute, Dehra Dun, India.

Limaye, V. D. and B. R. Sen. 1956. Weights and Specific Gravities of Indian Woods. Indian Forest Records, New Series. Timber Mechanics, Vol. 1, No. 4. Manager of Publications (Publisher, Delhi.

Lincoln, W. A. 1986. World Woods in Color. Linden Publishing Company, Inc., Fresno, California.

McCoy-Hill, M.,1954,Timbers of Tanganyika - Brachylaena hutchinsii and Pterocarpus angolensis,Timber Technology,62(2185, p559

Papua New Guinea Department of Forests,1972,New Horizons,Forestry in Papua New Guinea,Jacaranda Press PTY Ltd, Brisbane

Poynton, R.J.,1957,Notes on Exotic Forest Trees in South Africa (Second Edition, Revised,South African Forestry Department Bulletin No.38

Scott, M.H.,1935,Weights of South African Growth Timbers,South African Department of Agriculture and Forestry Bulletin,No.145,Forest Products Institute, Forestry Series No.1

Sono, P.,1974,Merchantable Timbers of Thailand.,Forest Products Research Division, Royal Forest Department, Bangkok,,Thailand.

Takahashi, A.,1978,Compilation of Data on the Mechanical Properties of Foreign Woods (Part,III) Africa,Shimane University, Japan, Research Report on Foreign Wood No. 7

Tewari, M.C., Jain, J.C.,1980,Utilization of Secondary Species,Journal of the National Building Organization 25(2) pp1-6

The Ecological Trading Company Limited (ETC, Newcastle upon Tyre, United Kingdom.

Troup, R.S. 1909. Indian Woods and Their Uses. The Indian Forest Memoirs, Economic Products Series, Volume 1, No. 1. Superintendent, Government Printing, Calcutta, India.
LAST COMMENT: Largely used in the past in Australia and all South East Asia, inlcuded Thailand, to make light race boats. In Thailand still used to make race longtail boats. Practically disappeared in Australia (commercially) and protected.


SATISFIED? now we (boatbuilders) can glue it? ***** prepare the epoxy....

 

If you want to have a real good job done, A****** is one of the best, the make the most upperclass wood work and make all their fiberglass work according to the latest technology,,,,, can recomend them to anybody

 

Rb Iso 9001-2000

Dear Mr. *****,

Pls see in the attachment files , the certificate WAS FROM GLOBAL INTERNAL SYSTEM (GNET) , the second file was from GLOBAL Website ( www. globalcertification.com),select United Kingdom, Click Certification Check, add No. 75001271453 in the block,click Search ,then the status will be shown as in the file. You can check, hope that you will be clear that your certificate is recommended by GLOBAL CERTIFICATION LIMITED (UKAS No.039).

Regards,

Chanyaporn

 

RB,
This is getting a bit repetitive I'm afraid. Your ISO 9001 certificate must state which accredited scheme it is approved by. It does not say, or show e.g. the UKAS logo.

From the company website:
Quote" The large majority of business has been through UKAS accredited schemes but this has now spread to other approvals from SINCERT in Italy, ENAC in Spain and DSM in Malaysia."

None of these entities has approved your company or else their logo and an accreditation number would be shown, and the piece of paper you have does not cover boat building.

 

Thanks, but I am not here to make promotion to my company, or make defenses of ***** (he does not needs) but just to talk about this wood. May be someone could misunderstand!
I am trying also to get away from hard discussions of this post that it is becoming a little boring and useless to the Boatdesign forum community.
I posted dissaprove feedbacks.

To Mr. Robert Self: before thinking that your boat will be not good because the wrong wood it is used on it, please try to understanding the wood itself, check please the scientific name and family name, because sometime commercial and trade names have nothing to do with the wood itself...

 

just to make it less dramatic, a question:
SINCERT, ENAC, DSM, UKAS.... needs all these to make a boat float??....I will change work!!