What Do We Think About Climate Change

Ok, to put this thread back on track.... btw, I'm probably one of the "best" to throw a thread off the track....

Ok, Read this (North pole is melting):

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/06/080620-north-pole.html

Now, to my simple mind, that's an indication that something's getting hotter than before. I, beeing an edjukated fella, coming from a home, with furnitures (that can be read as "sivilized"), have learnt that when temperature rises, ice melts (Ok, not when the temp goes from -30°C up to -20°, but in the 0° area, getit?).

So, something's hotter, if it's caused by human activity or not, I have not an idea, but I think it would be too simple minded to say that whatever we do, it does not affect the climate at all, not in an even small scale. Come to think of it, that's why I fill my stove to its max limit when I come to my cabin in the wintertime.... -25°C.... Only on a larger/ slower scale.....

 

THE COMING AND GOING OF GLACIERS
A New Alpine Melt Theory
By Hilmar Schmundt

The Alpine glaciers are shrinking, that much we know. But new research suggests that in the time of the Roman Empire, they were smaller than today. And 7,000 years ago they probably weren't around at all. A group of climatologists have come up with a controversial new theory on how the Alps must have looked over the ages...
....He digs into the ground with his mountain boot until something dark appears: an old tree trunk, covered in ice, polished by water and almost black with humidity. "And here is the proof," says Joerin.

Radical new theory

The tree trunk in the ice is part of a huge climatic puzzle that Joerin is analyzing for his doctoral thesis for the Institute for Geological Science at the University of Bern. And he is coming to an astonishing conclusion. The fact that the Alpine glaciers are melting right now appears to be part of regular cycle in which snow and ice have been coming and going for thousands of years. (Link to rest of story)

 

Also see the attached file from NASA.

Jimbo

 

Wow, how much is he paid for that marvelous piece of information? Most people past grade school (I think thats what you colonials call it) can figure that out without to much bother! Guess most of us are in the wrong job!.........I mean, I to could be bullshitting for a living, maybe I am!

 

From:

THE COMING AND GOING OF GLACIERS
A New Alpine Melt Theory
By Hilmar Schmundt

"Negating the effect of climate change?"

"Joerin is quick to explain that he is not trying to explain away the effects of man-made warming of the past few years: "Our findings so far could also be seen as giving the exact opposite of a climatic all-clear," he says. "If we can prove that there were ancient forests where the glaciers are today, it means one thing in particular: that the climate can change more suddenly than we thought."

 

Bntii:

Read between the lines, dude; there was no anthropogenic CO2 then. His disavowing the dissonance to the accepted chorus is his way of inoculating himself from being labeled a "skeptic", a moniker which the 'true believers' will use to marginalize him and trivialize anything he writes from now on, as they have already done with several leading climatologists.

Jimbo

 

Or take this finding at its true weight in reference to the body of knowledge on this subject.

Glacial ebb and flow as a product of snow accumulation during these periods?
-that is regional dry periods?

Glacial ebb and flow from these periods not correlated with temperature data from ice cores and flora deposits globally ...

ie- regional variation at work here.


Interesting work non the less- Hannibal crossed the alps in his skivvies?

You have a horse in this race?

 

We ALL have a horse in this race; the carbon cuts the AGW alarmists are INSISTING is the ONLY WAY to avert disaster will themselves precipitate a disaster of another kind. But when you read what the 'far left green' writers (who have driven the green agenda thus far) have been saying for decades, this is EXACTLY what they want; collapse of the great industrial economies and attendant consequences. Don't believe me; do your own research and see for yourself. An 'Expensive Energy' world in NOT a prosperous world. And that's just for the portion of the world that's presently prosperous. For those already in poverty, it becomes an unlivable world.

And even if you accept the AGW scenario as true, mandatory carbon cuts are about the LEAST effective way to deal with it. This has already been covered earlier in the thread. So why are carbon cuts the only solution ever discussed?

Jimbo

 

and when we do cut out all this CO2 what are your really 'green' things (the plants and trees) going to breath?

and if we want to destroy all industrial life why not do the job properly - with a sodding great Atom Bomb?

end of world, QED

 

hehe,,, if you guys launch the bomb,,, i'l give ya the #'s to the roof of my house

 

See this:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/15/goddard_arctic_ice_mystery/

And again I put the question to the "True Believers"(And you know who you are ):

If the reality of AGW is such a 'no-brainer' THEN WHY DO THEY NEED TO PROP IT UP WITH BULL$HIT!!??

You must read the entire article, and when you do you will begin to admire the sheer cleverness and wile of the bullshitters; these are neither simple lies nor sloppy science or even innocent misunderstandings, but rather well thought-out deceptions designed to beguile the skimmers and scanners of scientific data, the people that listen to sound-bites, but never dig deeper. But since it is still basically wrong, it can be debunked.

Jimbo

 

"The author asserts that NSIDC's estimate of a 10% increase in sea ice compared to the same time as last year is wrong. Mr. Goddard does his own analysis, based on images from the University of Illinois' Cryosphere Today web site, and comes up with a number of ~30%, three times larger than NSIDC's estimate. He appears to derive his estimate by simply counting pixels in an image. He recognizes that this results in an error due to the distortion by the map projection, but does so anyway. Such an approach is simply not valid."

"Besides this significant error, the rest of the article consists almost entirely of misleading, irrelevant, or erroneous information about Arctic sea ice that add nothing to the understanding of the significant long-term decline that is being observed."


Jimbo- we need to quit our day jobs so we can make a proper throw at debating this mess..



"Arctic sea ice has declined dramatically over at least the past thirty years, with the most extreme decline seen in the summer melt season."

From:

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

 

scientists.... x 3.14

 

I don't know about the climate, but the weather seems to be changing - feels like rain soon from the office with a view.... (good to be "home again?")

 

Thawing Permafrost Likely To Boost Global Warming, New Assessment Concludes

ScienceDaily (Sep. 2, 2008) — A new assessment more than doubles previous estimates of the amount of carbon stored in permafrost, and indicates that carbon dioxide emissions from microbial decomposition of organic carbon in thawing permafrost could amount to roughly half those resulting from global land-use change during this century.

Cited study:

Edward A. G. Schuur et al. Vulnerability of Permafrost Carbon to Climate Change: Implications for the Global Carbon Cycle. BioScience, September 2008 / Vol. 58 No. 8