deisel with hydrogin

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by jeff spinney, Jan 20, 2008.

  1. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    The germans used to generate their hydrogen for blimps by passing water across red hot metal plates.
    This splits the oxygen/hydrogen like electrolisis does.
    I wonder if exhaust ports on a marine engine would get hot enough to split even a small percentage of seawater into hydrogen/oxygen?
    I have heard of steam being injected into petrol engines once the engine was hot, and increasing performance.
     
  2. captaintrue
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    captaintrue Junior Member

    Actually they went through various stages of technology--the technology available now is far beyond that. The United States and the CSA were using baloons filled with H2 back in the mid 1800s and were filling them in the field.

    And believe it or not there are actually systems that actually use the exhaust temperature and constituents for the likes of H2 generation, cataylsis, cracking....

    Also: There were reports concerning planes that when they flew low over water, they found sudden boost in performance--steam. Flash steam, etc.

    ***

    Again, regarldess of any Walmartologist's thinking it is possible to generate enough H2 to power car or a boat many times over in an hour AND cost-effectively. If you think Walmart is going to come to your rescue... =) funny.
     
  3. ted655
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    ted655 Senior Member

    ="gain, regardless of any Walmartologist's thinking it is possible to generate enough H2 to power car or a boat many times over in an hour AND cost-effectively. I"========
    .
    :rolleyes: , sigh...... OK, I give up AND what's more, I really need one. So...... where can I buy one? Huy,:confused: Can I have the link, PLEASE!
     
  4. tom28571
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    I'm getting beyond my field here but I think that steam or water injection has been used on IC engines. I think that water in small quantities, slows down the combustion so that a more complete burn is achieved. This sounds just like raising the octane rating. I believe this was used in aircraft.

    A question for engine experts. Does running an engine in a high humidity atmosphere increase its power?
     
  5. captaintrue
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    captaintrue Junior Member

    There are various factors...

    "Corrected Power" - http://www.land-and-sea.com/dyno-tech-talk/corrected-horsepower.htm

    OSTI Abstract - http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=195173

    Humdity is said by some to reduce HP on some engines. Now the manner in which the engine is made and also % humidty likely plays a role. It may be that only high levels of humidity may reduce performance whereas low levels might give an 'assitive' flash steam effect.

    Also: http://www.flashsteam.com/index.htm .

    I suspect that in the previously-mentioned reports, if they were valid, that the aircraft flew low and found a higher concentration of oxygen (i.e. greater density) near the water's surface rather than there having been a flash steam effect or that there was both.

    Something that might be of interest to all: Water/meth. injection http://www.dieselsite.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=300.
     
  6. rambat
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    rambat Member at large

    Cat hydrogen

    The original question about Hydrogen being used to bolster if not replace diesel; in some land based generation is presently being studied by Caterpillar. Their approach is to first convert their existing engine to burn natural gas via added spark plugs and re-mapping the ECM. That program is known as ARES and has met significant milestones and started to incorporate Hydrogen into the mixture, a prudent evolution. My company was hired last year to review the possibility of powering a large mega yacht with marine diesels converted to burn hydrogen. While bleeding edge, it appears possible, we exchanged the BTU potential of the natural gas powered engine with the required volume of highly pressurized Hydrogen and found it to be a large tankage capacity, but not impossible (see conceptual image), The idea of using hydrogen will become more realistic when more efficient ways of generating electricity come on line. Hydrogen then becomes a "storage battery" of that energy, useful when large amounts of power are required since electric motors and batteries of 5000 KW are not feasible for moving craft. Cat has a big ARES PDF here: http://www.businessroundtable.org/pdf/ClimateRESOLVE/Gerber_Caterpillar.pdf
     

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  7. ted655
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    ted655 Senior Member

     
  8. captaintrue
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    captaintrue Junior Member

    That's the rub with extreme diesel conversions--a key method being to modify it for propane or natural gas, add spark plugs or the like to make it effectively a hybrid diesel system. With gasoline based engines, this is not always. But there are methods for converting gasoline engines (ala IMPCO) similiary but the spark system is already there.

    For future efficient electricity generation one might look to thin film photovaltaics or to more efficient solar cells.

    There was research involving adding coal to diesel fuel--however there were problems.
     
  9. rambat
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    rambat Member at large

    Cats

    Ted, the goal with ARES is to lower emissions, significantly, presently land based power generation units only. But like most engine makers they want options if the tipping point is reached for fossil fuel cost, making alternatives suddenly viable.
     
  10. ted655
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    ted655 Senior Member

    Oh yeah, I forgot they air standards will soon be applied to marine engines. They already are on OBs.
    I heard a report on National Public Radio, where they said Tankers & cruise ships are polluting as much as land vehicles.
    Here is a place already converting gasolene engines to gaseous fuel.
    http://www.jasperengines.com/about-reman.htm
    .
    I know now that Noah's Ark was powered by methane.:D
     
  11. bilgeboy
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    bilgeboy Senior Member

    Now, if only we could figure out how to get the gin molecule isolated from hydrogin...we could make some real dough.

    Mike
     
  12. jeff spinney
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    jeff spinney Junior Member

    adress for hydrogine macine

    www.hypnow.com brings you to a site that is written in french,i never looked over much myself,allot of this stuff is over my head but it looks like they will use heat from the exhaust for making the hydrogin ,it does seem to me that heat from the engine is defenatly a byproduct of converting diesel into propeller thrust, that we just try to get rid of.their is probably some kind of conversion chart to calculate btu's into horse power.Maybe we should try running a boiler for a steam engine if the hydrogine converter dosn't work.
    i'm starting to lean towards this thing working knowing it uses heat instead of electricity that would bog down the altinator
     
  13. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

  14. ted655
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    ted655 Senior Member

    What made Henry Ford's model A great? Anyone know?
     

  15. JonathanCole
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    JonathanCole imagineer

    For those wishing some concrete information about generating hydrogen aboard a vessel/vehicle. No claims made for the safety or workability of this information. Proceed at your own risk!!
     

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