Moth on Foils: 35.9 knots(41.29 mph)

The formula board has just one person aboard, just like a Moth, but seems to have 44% more sail area. Which is more efficient??

How would a formula board perform with an 8.0 sqm sail??

 

No cats? Does this mean you (Doug) admit the Moth may not be the fastest thing under 21' (albeit very fast and efficient)?

 

Moth on Foils // No Cats?

Well, Pi that surprised me too-maybe the Finns don't have cats?! But those who read this forum know better: there is much evidence of Rohan Veal and others beating and/or matching all cats under 21'. Not only that but did you read the 'Around the World 'story from Rohan Veal-it's here. To establish the new 'Round the World ' record Veal beat a VX-40 -you know the 40' Volvo Ocean Race cat. So maybe we should say the fastest sailboat under 40' around a course?

 

Dear Doug and Pi,

We do have some cats here in Finland. Guys at Pro Sail magazine are planning to make this event an annual happening. So maybe next year we'll have multihull entries.

What really makes this format of racing interesting is that conditions are about same for all. Also the level of sailors was reasonable equal. I.e. there was no full time pro's promoting any specific product. But please don't get me wrong -Roan is wellcome too.

 

Moth on Foils

One Off, welcome to boatdesign.net and particularly to the "Moth on Foils" thread! Thanks for your information both here and on SA. I'm excited to hear that the race will be an annual event-should be great to compare results as time goes by.

 

Moth on Foils// Simon Says....

Wednesday, November 14, 2007

From Simon Nelsons-mid life crisis blog:

People's Foiler hits the big Two Oh!
Having managed to clear the decks of all the daily detritus, I finally got to go for a midweek sail in the Moth when the Nor'easter was pumping. Having owned my boat for nearly 3 months, I had yet to sail it in more than about 12 knots of wind. This meant that my heavy weather sail was still brand spanking new so, with a good 16-18 knots blowing, I couldn't resist the chance to give it a go.
And I was duly rewarded for my patience. The Moth sailors in the UK have a little "speed table", membership of which is open to anybody who breaks the 20 knot barrier. before today, there were 25 members - now there are 26.
Since my last post about the Moth, it has been officially named. In honour of that great "ambassador" of the foiling movement, Doug Lord, the boat has been named "People's Foiler". Now it was time for her to prove her worth.
It was clear from the moment I sheeted in that it was going to be a fast day. Setting off on port close hauled, I sailed about 600 metres to the other end of the beach in what seemed like a matter of moments. It was hard to keep speeds below 12-13 knots, even though I was playing with the sail controls to see how the new sail responded. A quick tack and bear away and the GPS went crazy, but only a little more than the bombardment on every sense in my body. The acceleration, the speed, the sensitivity of the steering, the shear exhilaration. Instantly the GPS showed over 20 knots and just seemed to stay there. Before I had time to digest what was going on, I was deep into the moored boats near the club and looking to slow and get away.
Flushed with the knowledge that the 20 knot barrier was history, I pressed on. I found a comfortable 14 knots upwind mode and then it happened. Nothing changed except the GPS readout suddenly jumped to 20 and straight back down again. A clear spike and with it the doubt. A GPS spike is pretty common. Many claims of high speed in dinghies are no more than spikes, which most proud sailors refuse to accept. This has lead to claims of bathtubs sailing faster than skiffs and I don't want to add to the catalogue of false claims. So, was my membership of the 20+ club no more than a spike.
The rest of the sail went at speed but as usual, there was never going to be enough time. So, within half an hour of coming off the water, I was downloading the data to my laptop and checking the data for spike. Sure enough, there were a few of which my favorite was the one that showed I went from 12 knots to 21 in 2 metres. I don't think my Porsche could do that, never mind a boat.
However, the top speed of 21.8 knots (25.01 MPH) was genuine, which moves me into joint 13th on the table. I am well pleased and here is the evidence.

*
About Me
Simon Nelson
Having tried and failed to live up to the moto "only the good die young", I have entered into my mid life crisis with gusto. Old enough to know better but too young to reach for the pipe and slippers, I get a great kick out of going harder and faster than ever!
=======================================
A Moth called "Peoples Foiler"- I love it!
*

 

Well done, Simon
First time on a foiling moth at 20+, tell me something?
Where was your heart? beating out your chest or stuck in your throat?

Regards
Grant
AUS 9344

 

Hey Doug, your fame reaches far and wide!

 

Moth on Foils

Excellent blog comments here:
GONE WITH THE WIND !...: BAD KARMA
Address:http://martin-raget.blogspot.com/2007/11/bad-karma.html Changed:5:17 AM on Tuesday, November 20, 2007

 

Moth On Foils Veal article

New article by Andy Rice: "Veal Pushes Foiling Moth Into Mainstream" -- Jan/Feb issue of Sailing World.

 

Moth on Foils // Article

Comments & Questions:
Question: Is your nomination(2007 Rolex Male Sailor of the Year) a sign that ISAF is begining to take foiling boats seriously?
Veal: Absolutely. I think in the future that will definitely be the case,but it's already happening. People are realizing it's not just a fad, but it is the way forward.
======
Question: What was it that worked so well on the boat?
Veal: We spent a lot of time on the control mechanisms: we reduced the friction and the slack in the system. It just made a biddifference. But that was just one part. The whole package seems to work well now.It just clicked. We're geting to the point where the boat is working right out of the box.
======
Question: Where will the [Bladerider] Class be in 10 years?
Veal: I don't even think two years ahead! But I think we might have better rigs for bigger sailors and a smaller rig for kids. Maybe there'll be enough people in each category to sail their own events much like Lasers do.
I think we will make 300-400 boats next year,and if interest keeps growing, maybe we'll expand to new factories in Europe and America,maybe make 2000 boats a year. Who knows,10 years is a long way away, but we need to keep developing,keep on the leading edge.

 

Moth on Foils Beats 258 other dinghies!!! *

But is apparently not eligible for the Bloody Mary Trophy:
Sailing news as it happens - Yachts and Yachting Online
Address:http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=139752
* including at least one 18' skiff and at least one RS600FF
============================
FROM THE UK MOTH SITE:

12-1 Solve this riddle: A man enters a sailing race with 258 other sailors. After two hours of brilliantly talented sailing he wins by a small margin. But in fact he lost. The race of course was the Bloody Mary and the sailor Graham Vials, who despite starting a minute behind the International 14s overtook everyone on the water. The 'reasoning' (although that word rather dignifies their thought process) offered by the club is that the Moth has not been given a formal PY number by the RYA. As a reason for excluding the Moth this provides a superficial excuse, but in reality their case is vacuous:
- First: the RYA is incompetent at administering the PY system and puts little resource into it. To fail to provide a handicap for the fastest growing class, creating unprecedented interest and helping to take dinghy racing into a sustainable future is risible. Further, if there was a handicap based on the hundreds (maybe thousands?) of club races completed by Moths in 2007, what do you suppose it would be? Damn slow, because there are so many people learning to get to grips with foiling, not to mention the percentage of races that are too light or too windy for average foil skills, that there's no way an average PY would be lower than 900. Do you think for one minute the burgmeisters of Queen Mary would use such a handicap - would they hell. They'd be the first to use their 'discretion' and assign a handicap they felt reflected the very fastest Moth sailors in attendance at their precious race. Just like they did today by rating us behind the 14s. So their argument runs
- spend ages dealing with tedious bureaucrats at the RYA and your local club to eventually get a number that we won't take a blind bit of notice of. And that's not all...
- Second: they look silly and out of touch. It is actually in Queen Mary's interests to lead the way on handicapping contemporary classes rather than hiding under the mouldy skirts of the moribund RYA. Had they the vision they would welcome Moths and other newcomers by setting their own rating and adjusting it from experience year to year. Initially a new class would be assessed harshly, then as more is known about it gradual refinement of the handicap would take place. With an approach like this QM would be a leader - instead they have reduced themselves to historians musing on whether the Enterprise might have gained a few points on the Albacore with the advent of dacron sails. Get real Queen Mary. Mothing is the future and it could be worth good money to you in members. Today you offended the twelve boats that entered your event and sent a signal that maybe they should build their Moth fleet elsewhere. How many Moths do you expect to enter next year? For the record, 1st Graham Vials, 4th Jason Belben others Arthur Philips,Tim Boon, Adrian Murphy, Andrew Friend, Simon Propper, Alex Knight, James Rodie, Ed Sibson, Tom Whicher, Mike Cooke.

 

A lamentable state of affairs.

 

Moth on Foils / Target: TORNADO


Picture from Rohan Veals site/Bundy and Veal sailing
------------------------
Gentlemen(and Ladies): Your mission,should you decide to accept it, is to beat this boat with an eleven foot monohull named after a bug.
The odds against you are:
1) 1.8 times the length
2) 1.5 times the beam
3) 6 times the sail area
4) 10 times the RM
The odds on your side are:
1) foils
------
Hmmm....

 

The odds on your side are also:
2) 3 times less (static) weight
3) 100? times less wetted surface area
4) 1000? times less waterplane area

EVERYONE knows that foiling Moths are fast. It is obvious that they are, and should be. The are also radical, innovative, cool (to a certain demographic) and photogenic. The fact that they are on the front cover of both dinghy oriented magazines in GBR this month shows how they have captured the media's attention.

However, you can get the same speed at a lot less cost and a lot less complexity from a windsurfer. Or, you can get a greater senstaion of speed, at a fraction of the cost, from a Laser. Foiling is a fun new game, but it is not a golden bullet to popularising sailing for the masses.
I do genuinely hope that you do make a People's Foiler, but PLEASE tone down the foiling evangelism, or at least get yourself a go on a Moth.