Harley 42'

Discussion in 'Powerboats' started by Guest, Apr 6, 2004.

  1. Steve H
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    Steve H Senior Member

    24 degree deadrise
     
  2. martin@kroesche
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    martin@kroesche Junior Member

    46 Harley

    Sorry guys I am not faster. I have been snowed under. I will scan and post the drawings I have. You can check the Harley site under technical data in the next few days. I hope it is helpful.......if you want to send me your fax # i will fax it tomorrow in the morning.

    Martin
     
  3. Steve H
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    Steve H Senior Member

    You better have a look on page 93 in the current issue of Yacht Trader. It looks as if Harley is trying to get production going again. He is offering models from 38' to 54'? The add shows CAD images of what I assume is a 38' center console. A new Harley anyone?

    Steve
     
  4. martin@kroesche
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    martin@kroesche Junior Member

    46 Harley

    Steve:
    Regrettably this is nothing new-he has been trying to get a model back in production for years. He will solicit a deposit before he gets started-
    I sincerely doubt he has the ability of actually producing one from start to finish-it would nice if he could. On a note of reality, do you or anyone have any props I can borrow to test my boat? I do not care what size they are as long as they are 25 tooth spline. I am going crazy-

    Martin
     
  5. Steve H
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    Steve H Senior Member

    I'm 19 spline. Otherwise I would in a Mexican Minute.

    Steve
     
  6. martin@kroesche
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    martin@kroesche Junior Member

    46 Harley

    Gracias

    Martin
     
  7. martin@kroesche
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    martin@kroesche Junior Member

    Harley Article from 01

    printer version

    Ferry project rides on questionable credentials

    Here is a article about HH from 2001. Note that the Ferry never got built and the deposit was never returned.


    Former clients of a shipbuilder who may build a high-speed ferry based in John's Pass have alleged fraud and shoddy workmanship.

    By AMY WIMMER

    © St. Petersburg Times, published April 29, 2001

    MADEIRA BEACH -- Hubbard's Marina hopes to bring Pinellas County a new boating technology, capable of shuttling 150 people to Key West in about three hours.

    But the Hubbards, who are seeking state and federal money for the multimillion-dollar project and have received endorsements from a handful of Pinellas beach cities, plan to buy the boat from a Polk County shipbuilder with a reputation for promising more than he can deliver.

    Howard Harley of Harley Shipbuilders in Bartow holds patents on his ship in more than a dozen countries but has tried only once to build such a boat for a customer. Last year that first buyer, Sarasota-based Fast Cats Ferry Service, yanked its unfinished boat hulls out of Harley's Bartow facility and hired a Tampa company to finish the work.

    Now Harley and Fast Cats are involved in dueling lawsuits, with Harley accusing Fast Cats of stealing his technology, and the buyer accusing the builder of fraud. Fast Cats owners say Harley claimed his ideas were polished, but much of the $1.23-million they paid him to build the boat actually went toward designing and engineering it.

    Several unrelated lawsuits over the past 15 years allege shoddy workmanship on several of the dozens of more traditional boats that Harley built in the 1980s and 1990s. Some boat owners told the Times they spent thousands of dollars "de-Harleying" boats purchased from the builder, though Harley insists his record of dissatisfied customers is no different than any other small boat builder.

    The Hubbards are confident in Harley -- confident enough, they say, to ask the city of Madeira Beach to help ensure that a Harley high-speed ferry will find a home along the docks of John's Pass Village, where the Hubbards operate Hubbard's Marina and the Friendly Fisherman Restaurant.

    Mark Hubbard of Hubbard Express, a new company that handles the Harley boat venture, said past and current allegations against Harley do not concern him because "companies get sued in this day and age quite a bit." The Hubbards have signed a contract with Harley for construction of the 100-foot-plus ferry and paid him a $100,000 deposit.

    "There are probably a half-dozen different designs that would work, but we are blessed with a designer right in Bartow, Fla., who has developed a surface-effect ship that would meet our needs very well," Hubbard said.

    The surface-effect technology used in Harley's design is best described as a cross between a catamaran and a Hovercraft. The boat runs so quickly -- about as fast as a car on the interstate -- because it rides on a cushion of air.

    In a recent letter to Madeira Beach City Manager Mike Bonfield, Patricia Hubbard of Hubbard Express asked the city to apply for a federal grant to fund a seaport terminal and parking garage at John's Pass Village. The seaport then would be leased back to the Hubbards for their Harley ferry, much like a baseball stadium is leased to a team owner.

    Also through the grant, Madeira Beach would receive $250,000 to complete its revitalization of John's Pass Village, and at least half of the seaport parking garage would be available for public parking.

    Bonfield said the City Commission likely will discuss the proposal for a private/public partnership between the Hubbards and Madeira Beach this summer.

    The Hubbards need the city's support because the majority of grants they could qualify for must be sponsored by a government agency. They also are seeking private investors and other financing for the SeaTran, their name for the Harley boat.

    So far, the Hubbards have been unsuccessful in obtaining government grants. The Department of Transportation did not recommend the project for funding through its Transportation Outreach Program, and state lawmakers from Pinellas have had little luck convincing the governor and Legislature to award $4-million for the ferry itself.

    If the Hubbards earn state or federal money to bring the ferry to Madeira Beach, it won't be the first time Harley's surface-effect ships have won government money. The Office of Naval Research confirmed last week that it has awarded Harley four research grants totaling more than $1.1-million.

    Fast Cats owners say the grants helped convince them to contract Harley to build a ferry that would shuttle passengers from Sarasota to Key West, similar to the Hubbards' plan.

    But they say Harley inflated his involvement in a $3-million grant given to the University of California -- which he lists in literature promoting his business. Harley acknowledged he received only $200,000 of that grant and that he believes the university distributed the money unfairly.

    The explanation, opponents say, is an example of how Harley does business. They say he promises anything from his boats that his customers request, even if he does not have the manpower or technology to deliver it, then explains away the problem when he fails to deliver on his promise.

    Court records indicate Harley blamed legal judgments against him on "the judge being confused by all the information presented" or a "quirk" in Florida law.

    "He will tell you anything," said Lee Williams of Ocean City, Md., mentioned to the Times by Harley as a customer with whom he had a good relationship. "I'd say, Howard, can you put a margarita mixer next to my transmission, and he'd say sure, not a problem. You'd ask him, can it mix 7.5 per hour? And he'd say, not a problem.

    "I've had people call me over the years and say, "Do you have one of these Harleys? How the hell do I fix these things?' "

    Some customers and colleagues speak highly of Harley boats. "I've run this one ever since '88, and I have good things to say about the boat," said Ira Chapman of West Columbia, S.C. "It's a good boat, and it handles good."

    And John Hopkinson, president of Vibtech Inc., an engineering firm that does business with Harley, said he believes in the shipbuilder's technology but realizes Harley often promises too much.

    "Howard's an optimist. The glass is always half full, I guess. He is optimistic about doing things, and I think in his business, he has to be," Hopkinson said. "There've always been issues with Howard being a shrewd businessman, but he's also an entrepreneur and a survivor.

    "I just need to be a little more shrewd in my dealings with him. He drives a hard bargain because he doesn't have a lot of cash. It's a tough thing to be in business for yourself."

    Harley has been through tough times. Fiberfloat, the company that built the v-hull boats the shipbuilder is best known for, filed bankruptcy in 1996. It went through a reorganization and is still in business.

    In the bankruptcy filings, Harley cited a series of legal judgments against Fiberfloat as part of the reason for filing bankruptcy. He also noted that a disgruntled customer, Carmen Gricco Jr., had made things more difficult for him by launching a negative advertising campaign, which included hiring a banner plane with an anti-Harley message to fly over the Fort Lauderdale Boat Show, where Harley had an exhibit.

    Gricco's attorney in that case, Peter Commette, said he still gets occasional phone calls from Harley customers who feel slighted by the boat builder. And he doesn't mince words about his attitude toward the businessman.

    "If Howard Harley told me it was sunny outside," he said, "I would go and check it out."

    Since finding a new builder for the Fast Cats boat, owner Mark Antos has adjusted the ship slightly and applied for his own patent. Harley insists it was Antos' constant retooling of the ship that caused delays and forced him to work on the boat's design instead of its construction.

    Fast Cats does not hide the fact that it would like to build a ferry for Hubbard, which brings its motives for aggressively combating Harley into question.

    "They're trying to see if they can take this order away from me," Harley said. "They were extremely unhappy at first, but now they're trying to build a boat for Hubbard."

    The Hubbards stress that they refuse to buy Harley's first surface-effect ship so they have proof that the technology will work. They hope he will build one for someone else first, namely a South American country that has looked into purchasing a boat from Harley.

    In the meantime, Harley is eager to have a buyer for the technology he spent years perfecting.

    "This, I am confident, will have no bearing on Hubbard's ability to get funding," he said. "Somebody just has to hear my side of this."

    -- Times researcher Kitty Bennett contributed to this report.
     
  8. Steve H
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    Steve H Senior Member

    Hey! they quoted Lee. The guy in SC isn't going to bad mouth a boat he has had for sale for year


    Lee you need to get some pics of your boat on Martins web site
     
  9. martin@kroesche
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    martin@kroesche Junior Member

    46 Harley

    Send in the pics, I want them all!

    Martin
     
  10. Swamplizard
    Joined: Jan 2004
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    Swamplizard Senior Member

    Steve - ever get those new props to work?
     
  11. martin@kroesche
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    martin@kroesche Junior Member

    46 Harley

    Guys-
    Did you notice in the Harley Boat ad that the boat in the picture is a toy model? If you look closely that is a Ken doll at the helm. Hmmm. I want one!
    Hey, I am attaching a photo shop picture of my boat with a hardtop. I think I am going to build it. Since all of our boats are the same dimensions, If anyone if interested I will have a mold for it-check it out and please give me your opinions. If I add it I will have a very aerodynamic half tower to the top with a full drive station-
    One picture of the boat currently and the other is with a hard top(still express).

    Still looking for some prop help!

    Martin
     

    Attached Files:

  12. pizzacutter
    Joined: Apr 2006
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    pizzacutter Senior Member

    props & margarita mixers

    I saw the toy in the Harley ad in Saltwater-Fisherman mag. full page ad is not cheap, I guess he's baaaack. Sorry I hadn't been on the site or sent photos to new site (nice site). Very busy summer (and fall) Pizza Cutter running great, my son and I are back on the Chesapeake working on our 2nd home, 15 mile run to Tangier Island, lots of building materials, lots of trips, it's been a gorgeous Sept. here. Can't say enough good stuff about the 3126 cats (420 hp) run'em hard and put'em up wet. Lot's of use this summer with 2 repairs. A starter solenoid and changed an alt. belt, thats it (plus change impeller on margarita mixer). I saw one photo of the white w/red stripe 42 with arch, is that yours swamp? I drove that boat @ HH's in 1989 and saw it 4 sale in FT. Laud. a few years later. Beautiful boat with the euro windsheild. It had big 454's @ the time. Martin I checked some props for you. I am running 20x25 now, note my rpm @ 2300 cruise, 2850 WO- tranny ratio 1.15 to 1. They really have a great cruise, lots of rooster tail, very sensative to trim, especailly above 40 kts. I can't loan you those for a while because of the job I'm on but you are welcome to try my spares that are 22.5x24. I have not used them for a couple of years but from what I remember they had similar performance numbers (keep in mind that both of my sets have had minor mods done locally). If you want to try them e-mail my assistant Susan at dominosusan@comcast.net and let her know how you would want to ship, etc. I'd be happy to loan to you. You should run the scenario past Ken @ Pacific Sur. Drive before you spend a bunch on freight, he should know if they are even close. I'll try to get photos on HPB site soon, I've got a lot of them over the last 18 years!
     
  13. martin@kroesche
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    martin@kroesche Junior Member

    46 Harley

    Pizza Cutter:
    Thanks for that. Are they 25 tooth splines? If so, I ill take you up on your offer. I have a set of 24x26x3 which did not grab enough, the 5 blades will probably perform different. What did you think of my hardtop idea?
    Let me know and if the props are 25tooth then i will want to borrow them for a few test runs.

    Regards,

    Martin
     
  14. Swamplizard
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    Swamplizard Senior Member

    yeah pizza - that's mine. Blew a motor so she is sitting behind the house until the funds can be musterred up. Going to rebuild both motors since I dont trust them anymore....wish I could swing for a pair of diesels but not this time around.
     

  15. Steve H
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    Steve H Senior Member

    Martin,

    I like it! I think it fits the boat perfectly.

    Steve
     
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