Harley 42'

Discussion in 'Powerboats' started by Guest, Apr 6, 2004.

  1. Steve H
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 268
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    Location: S.W. WashingtonState

    Steve H Senior Member

    Hello everyone, whats the latest? Lets here from everyone on their season so far. I have been putting lots of hours on this year, I have made several trips to the coast, boat is running excellnt. Finally spending more on gas than repiars and maintenance, it's nice!

    Prop testing did not go so well.

    1st try: Could not get on plane, props would lose bite around 12 mph and freewheel. I tried every trick I had. No go. John Rose had me send them to a prop shop north of here. They added cup to the ends of the blades and reshaped the leading edge. I was not confident that it would change anything, but Rose wanted to give it a try.

    2nd try: Still could not get on plane. So I was turning around to head back to the dock and the rpm's on the inside engine dropped. So I gunned that engine and was able to get on plane coming out of a turn! Once on plane the props worked pretty good. I was running on fumes, so I didn't spend a lot of test time taking notes on speed rpm's etc.
    John Rose said he would make another set of props for me. He is the one who talked me into 17" props. I'm sure the problem is related to the wide separation between drives. This make the props unable to go deep even when trimmed down all the way, causing them to overventilate. John Rose asked me to put the props back on, get it on plane, then record all performance numbers to give him a solid basis to design the new props from. So far he has been a real stand up guy through this whole process. He is very pleasant to talk to and is truly interested in satisfying his customer, an unusual attribute in this industry.
    I just loaded up with 300 gallons of fuel, so I will have to burn all but the last 40 or 50 gallons before I try retesting propellers again.

    The next episode of "AS THE PROPELLER TURNS" will be back next week!

    Don't miss it

    Steve H
     
  2. Swamplizard
    Joined: Jan 2004
    Posts: 263
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    Location: Florida

    Swamplizard Senior Member

    Thanks SH - good stuff (the report - not the experience). Keep us posted. I have a locked up motor and am tired of the hole experience with these rebuilt POSs so I am going to get both motors pulled, disassembled, and rebuilt by a guy I really trust who specializes in blower and large NA motors ....probably go to 600ci and dynoed. I will also replace the transmissions with higher ratio 2:1 and hope for a few years of reliability. Keep you posted.
     
  3. Swamplizard
    Joined: Jan 2004
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    Location: Florida

    Swamplizard Senior Member

    Steve, what did shifting the motors rearward do for you again? Also - how far back did you move the motors (how close to the transom are they now?)?
    thanks - bet you can guess what I'm thinking.
     
  4. martin@kroesche
    Joined: Nov 2005
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    Location: texas

    martin@kroesche Junior Member

    46 Harley

    Guys-I need some help. I have now have three sets of props, the most recent made by Ken Martin @ Pacific drives. I have modified the props several times(like 4/5) and they are not making it. The latest prop guy(Mike Hood) said is that they are not surface props, they lack "rake". I have no idea what I need.
    I borrowed a set of props from Don Smith, they were dog eared 5 blade, 22 x 30. They did not have a rooster tail and made the the boat feel very relaxed. They ran perfectly to 2700 rpm @ 33kt and then just slipped all the way to 3500 rpm. The the others are running 39kt but they will not hit the rpm's needed, Im running them in the down position and they throw a gigantic rooster tail. Ken said the rooter tail is normal and indicative of surface drives, others have told me the rooster tail is a sign of inefficiencies and im am not running the boat correctly if I have a tail.

    Help. Does anyone have a set of props I can rent, for numbers purposes- I have 25 tooth spine. Ill try any size if the spine is correct.

    Any input will be greatly appreciated. I have asked Don Smith as well.
    Ken said he will make me another set as this has been a disaster and very costly.

    Martin
     

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  5. Steve H
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 268
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    Location: S.W. WashingtonState

    Steve H Senior Member

    My goal was to eliminate bow steer at higher speeds. This boat as you know was rigged with fixed drives from Harley. Worked fine at slow to mid cruise, but was a handful if you wanted to pick up the pace a it. WOT= white knuckles to keep it in a straight line.
    I moved the engines back 18" and removed fixed drives and installed Arensons. It is now a "small" handful at WOT, much better than before and I can cruise 40+ mph and keep it in a straight line very easily.
    I don't have a measurement handy, but if you look on a previous post on this thread there are some pictures of my engines with the hatch off. That should give you a good reference.
    BTW I just ordered a Nautimatic Gladiator autopilot. I'm very excited to get it installed and operational. It should make long cruising alot more reaxing for me. Even with the above improvements, this boat has to be steered all the time. I'm sure it is related to the motors being so far apart.

    Steve
     
  6. Swamplizard
    Joined: Jan 2004
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    Location: Florida

    Swamplizard Senior Member

    Thanks Steve - 40 mph cruise with stock 415 hp motors is awesome. I'll check out the photos and tweak accordingly. Be well!
     
  7. Steve H
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 268
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    Location: S.W. WashingtonState

    Steve H Senior Member

    Martin,

    I think propellers are the most frustrating part of updating your power. It is more art than science and since every Harley is different there is no basis to start from. You mentioned earlier in this thread that you were not happy with your gear ratio. Lee is running 1 to 1 in his and seems to quite satisfied, just a thought.
    I attached a picture of my old style Rolla's. They are a high rake design. The rake is how far the prop extends front to back. These props perform awsome, but are noisey. Of all the props I've tried a set of 4 blade Rolla SS Cleavers worked the best, (very quiet) but I didn't have enough power for them, would not reach minimum WOT rpm even though I hit 52mph. These are also very high rake props.

    http://www.h-ri.com/Product/Propellers/Propellers-03.html

    The above link talks about different types of SD props and their applications.

    Steve
     

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  8. martin@kroesche
    Joined: Nov 2005
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    Location: texas

    martin@kroesche Junior Member

    46 Harley

    Thanks for the information. Any idea on my "rooster tail" question? The link you sent me to says that they provide free prop. analysis. I left them an email and asked them for additional information. I have 2:1 reduction as a result of the factory recommendation and their concern that the Yanmars would not have enough torque to bring the boat on a plane It pops out of the water like a Seadoo so they were obviously mistaken. I think a 1:1 is also not correct, the ratio should be 1.5:1, as it was originally. Ill cross that bridge later.
    Thanks Again,

    Martin
     
  9. Steve H
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    Location: S.W. WashingtonState

    Steve H Senior Member


    My boat has always thrown a hellacious rooster. I finally had a larger swim step built to tame it down some so I could see behind me while cruising. The Arneson drives I installed have the splash plate over the props, but did'nt make much difference. Whoever is telling you that a rooster is a telltale of wrong props is full of crap.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0ekbppBwyA

    I took the above video several years ago cruising up the Columbia River Gorge. I was moving along approx 36 or 37 mph spinning the mtrs around 3800. This is pre Arneson, pre bigger swim step. Be sure to turn up the volume. These engines sound soooooo good at cruise power!!

    Steve
     
  10. Steve H
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 268
    Likes: 29, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 332
    Location: S.W. WashingtonState

    Steve H Senior Member

  11. Swamplizard
    Joined: Jan 2004
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    Location: Florida

    Swamplizard Senior Member

    The props need to ventilate - which means half in the water and half out each revolution so having the props down is not the most efficient thing - there should be a rooster tail. I am underpowered so I get a 3-4 footer not a 8 footer like these videos. Steve I love these - tell story of how you got the view from the "beach"....too funny.
     

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  12. martin@kroesche
    Joined: Nov 2005
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    Location: texas

    martin@kroesche Junior Member

    46 Harley

    Ok, I understand the concept of the surface drive and the prop is 50% exposed, I also understand that the further up your drive is trimmed the more in the surface mode you are, the optimum being with the props propulsion pushing straight back. However, no one has sufficiently answered the question about it, which is why do some do it(rooster tail) and others don't? When I used Don Smith's props it almost completely eliminated a tail yet I was still running very efficient, probably more so, and the boat was completely relaxed. I also had the drives almost trimmed all the way up, with the current props with sons m,at whatever position the drives are in, it throws a monster rooster tail. Other surface drive boats do not throw a tail at all. My assumption is that it is related to the specific design of the prop. Anyway, does anyone have 25tooth splined props I can rent?

    Martin
     
  13. Swamplizard
    Joined: Jan 2004
    Posts: 263
    Likes: 6, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 57
    Location: Florida

    Swamplizard Senior Member

    Martin - I know you understand the surface drive concepts - sorry if I insulted you - unintentional. The props themselves are magic and mirrors to me. I have tried (gas powered) 17.5x23 4 blade clevers, couldnt get on plane. Then tried some 4 blade 17.25 x 22 and they didnt work either. Then I put my props back on which were originally 20x21 three blade round eared....had them tuned to 19.5x19.5 and they run okay and get on plane but my rpms are 1200 lower than I'd like at wot. Mystery. I found on ebay a pair of clevers - 4 blades and they are 18x20 - should be interesting to see if they work at all when I get the boat motor fixed up.

    Martin, did you write before that you had the drawings for the 42 hull with all the statistics on deadrise etc? Can you post them?

    Swamp
     
  14. martin@kroesche
    Joined: Nov 2005
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    Location: texas

    martin@kroesche Junior Member

    46 Harley

    I wasn't even remotely insulted-just wanted to let you and whoever reads this know that I am beyond the basic points and at maximum frustration with my current situation. I agree that there is a degree of magic involved. I think I even got Ken Martin @ Pacific surface drives frustrated because he doesn't return my emails, he said he would take the props back and correct them.
    So, if you have any ideas please let me know. I will attempt to post the drawings(by hand) of the 42' on the Harley Powerboats site. Ill see about doing that today if I have time. I don't know how useful it will be as they were done by hand 20 years ago.

    Martin
     

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  15. Swamplizard
    Joined: Jan 2004
    Posts: 263
    Likes: 6, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 57
    Location: Florida

    Swamplizard Senior Member

    Martin, what I am looking for are the hull dimensions and angles for the 42. Deadrise, length at water line, that sort of thing. I have never been able to find it posted anywhere. Dont necessarily need pictures. Thanks!
     
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