24' Fiberform - Rotten Stringers/Transom

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by Ehdrian, Apr 27, 2007.

  1. Ehdrian
    Joined: Apr 2007
    Posts: 43
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 23
    Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada

    Ehdrian Junior Member

    Well, I'm on my 21st gallon of polyester restoring a 24ft with 4 stringers. I figure after all the decking is in and the boat is empty but 'finished', I'll have used 25+ gallons of polyester. 5 Gallons of polyester cost me $100 how much is ONE gallon of epoxy and hardner?

    I don't want to scare you off, but that's why I chose to use polyester. I have a polyester hull anyway.... Epoxy is a far superior product no matter which way you look at it.

    Here is one thing to keep in mind. If you start using epoxy, you have to keep using epoxy, because polyester does not stick to epoxy. So you can't switch back half way through if you run out of money.

    Cheers!
     
  2. Ehdrian
    Joined: Apr 2007
    Posts: 43
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 23
    Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada

    Ehdrian Junior Member

    You can use all sorts of great materials for your transom. It would be in your best interst to use at least marine grade ply.

    I took my stringers out first because they are butted up against the transom. I found it is easier just bracing the bottom of the boat and ripping everything out. This way I could put the transom in first and then butt the stringer right up to the transom.
     
  3. tuantom
    Joined: Jan 2005
    Posts: 182
    Likes: 3, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 45
    Location: Chicago

    tuantom Senior Member

    Frastorno,
    You can re-attach your jaw now - there are multiple sources for epoxy. US Composites will sell you 25 gallons of epoxy for about $1,000. There are also other companies in that same competitive price.
    To figure how much you'll need, the weight of the cloth is per yard. If you need, for example, 5 square yards of 20 oz cloth, you'll need, at minimum, 100 oz of epoxy and hardner. You're probably not going to be so efficient and will use a bit more; but a gallon would be plenty.
     
  4. frastorno
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 33
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Panama Rep (Panama City)

    frastorno Junior Member

    What a fun is to sand fibrglass! I think the trick is to find the balance between the right number of layers of cloths that protect you from the hitchy and that don't make you melt under the sun!

    I have to do the same job as you did, so I guess I'll need 25 .. or more given my fibregalling non-expertise. Here in Panama it costs aroud 100$ per gallon (WestM).. and it's the only epoxy availiable, it took me a wile to find it.. the main reason I was thinking about using epoxy is because I read that it's much more easy to apply and a "newbie" wuold do much less damage while learning fiberglassing.. is that a mith? I can still trade my gallon of epoxy for some resin's ones..
    About the wood to use for the transom.. my question was because plywood is much more expensive of real wood down here ( even very good wood, balsamo, cocobolo etc).. so do you think I can go ahead with balsamo again? even I'll have to use atleast 2 different tables?

    The hull seems to be so fragile now on the side a cleared up that I'm scared about pulling the transom also, without having the striger back on place. I'll follow your procedure payng a lot of attention at were I put my feet!
     
  5. frastorno
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 33
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Panama Rep (Panama City)

    frastorno Junior Member

    I understand that Polyester can't be used on Epoxy but Epoxy can be used on cured polyester.. so, can't I do stringers and transom with epoxy (to be sure of the structural part) and then fiberglass with poliester the table that support the deck, let them cure and then attach them with epoxy to the stringers and transom.. and use poliester from there for the rest of the deck?
     
  6. Ehdrian
    Joined: Apr 2007
    Posts: 43
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 23
    Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada

    Ehdrian Junior Member

    I have no clue :D To any of your questions... :confused: and I guarentee that I wasted more resin than you ever will lol
     
  7. frastorno
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 33
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Panama Rep (Panama City)

    frastorno Junior Member

    I guess we are all learning here ;) .. let's see if some one else has some input.. in the meantime I'm seriously reconsidering the epoxy thing, the gallon of polyester costs 16$ here against the 100$ of epoxy:!:
     
  8. TerryKing
    Joined: Feb 2007
    Posts: 595
    Likes: 25, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 289
    Location: Topsham, Vermont

    TerryKing On The Water SOON

    PolyDollars

    I've used both over 35 years. I 'fixed' boats with Polyester, but they didn't STAY fixed..

    Unless your boat is worth less than $100 - $16 = $84 I'd go with the epoxy.

    The other good thing about Epoxy is that it has a long shelf life. I just used some 5 year old West 105 and it handled perfectly. So you can use it for lots of things, like your rusty pickup truck... And your boat repairs next year.

    I always cringe at the price, but then I'm so glad to have it there...
     
  9. frastorno
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 33
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Panama Rep (Panama City)

    frastorno Junior Member

    Thx for your input TerriK, well.. that would be 84*25=2100$ and something if you consider the 3 stringers the transom and the deck, and that's probably what my boat is worth.
    Do you have any suggestions about the other questions?:
    -Is epoxy much easier to use? why?
    -Is there any reason why using pplywood and not a good non rotting and strong wood for the transom (balbamo, cocobolo, etc..)?
    -can't I attach the stringers and transom to the hull with epoxy (to be sure of the structural part) and then fiberglass with poliester the table that support the deck, let them cure and then attach them with epoxy to the stringers and transom.. and use poliester from there for the rest of the deck?
     
  10. TerryKing
    Joined: Feb 2007
    Posts: 595
    Likes: 25, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 289
    Location: Topsham, Vermont

    TerryKing On The Water SOON

    Other Opinions / experience???

    Wow, that seems like a LOT of resin. Why so much?? I would have thought a couple gallons for the stringers and the new glass covering them.

    My opinion on other stuff: (Others please comment on your experience!)

    - Transom wood: I used well scrubbed and dried pressure-treated plywood, coated with epoxy, especially end grains, and then bedded with thickened epoxy as others have mentioned. About 7 years and totally solid now.

    - (You mean 'floor' when you say 'deck' I assume. What is the 'table that supports the deck? Does the deck sit on top of the top of the stringers?). Well. You certainly could make the deck separately, using only polyester and glass over (again, I'd use pressure-treated) plywood. Then attach with screws so you can get inside once a year to clean / inspect. Screws into the stringers should be screwed in, then screws and the deck removed, and then screw holes drilled out and epoxied, then screws pilot-drilled and reinstalled. This way screws go only into epoxy, and no water can get into the stringers. Pain but worth it...

    Others: How much resin did it take to do 3 stringers on a boat like this??
     
  11. Ehdrian
    Joined: Apr 2007
    Posts: 43
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 23
    Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada

    Ehdrian Junior Member

    I'm sure he got the 25 gallon idea from me, but that is how much resin i am going to use to finish the whole boat, not just the stringers. As you will see in the pictures below, I am a little further ahead and have not used 25 gallons yet.

    Pictures:

    Many little baulkheads cut and soaked in resin 2xtimes, then mat applied to both sides.

    The bow has been glued/set in place but not fiberglassed yet.

    Engine mounts cut and waiting.

    8xLayers of fiberglass on a stringer,the back looks uneven because I have walked in that area many times and attracted dirt.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. frastorno
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 33
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Panama Rep (Panama City)

    frastorno Junior Member

    Yep, my estimate was based on Ehdrian's comments, I have to do almost the same stuff (basically everithing!).. but even if it was only a 15 gallons deal, there is a difference off thousands $.
    I'm in US this week (Austin), I finally found the fiberglassing alluminium rollers that everybody is talking about! I guess I'm another little step ahead :)
    What about usability of Epoxy, is it really much easier then regular resin?
     
  13. frastorno
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 33
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Panama Rep (Panama City)

    frastorno Junior Member

    Ehdrian, how many gallons you used only for the transom and stringers?
     
  14. Ehdrian
    Joined: Apr 2007
    Posts: 43
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 23
    Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada

    Ehdrian Junior Member

    Well.... 17.5oz /sq ft Nytex at 25yds by 50" wide which covered 4x stringers ~16ft each with double layers at the tips and engine area and also 2x layers on the transom with extra tabbing. This... and I think I have it right... is a total of 13gal of resin plus about 2 more needed for waste and fill, which would be 15gal.

    This would be close to what I used, but your boat is smaller so you might need just 10? I might have also wasted a lot of resin in the process, but I have no real way of telling because I had no experience prior to this. All I know is that I'm now on my 22 gallon of resin right now after coating and fiberglassing the baulkheads heavily with thinned resin for waterproofing.

    I don't worry too much about adding extra weight to the boat, so I use fill wherever needed, which has used close to 3gal of resin (including waste). I used chopped strand fill for rounding off areas to allow the fiberglass to bend easier over the corner where the stringer met the hull... etc... 5gal of polyester is about 44 pounds, so 5 extra gallons of unneeded resin is not a concern to me as long as water doesn't get into the wood.

    Personally I wouldn't go home without 10gal, and if you bought 15 you would have close to the amount you will need to finish the project.

    In short, I'm resin happy without a care :D
     

  15. frastorno
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 33
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Panama Rep (Panama City)

    frastorno Junior Member

    I now have the transom almost grinded :mad: , I should be able to start rebuilding it next week.. I'd also like not to worry about how much resin I use and make sure I don't left any hole behind. Still thinking what to use but if 10 gal is a decent aprox I'm more toward regular resin. I still have 3 questions you can help me out with:
    - Do you have first to grind and then use acetone to clear or the opposite?
    - Once you built transom and stringers did you do everithing at once or not? If not how did you guaranteed the structural continuity between transom and stringers?
    - I understand I have to apply some layer of resin to the stringers and transom woods before using them. DO I have to let them cure first or just apply resin and while fresh install the wood and fiberglass?
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.