My fuel effiencient powerboat project , any suggestions?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Doppson, Mar 31, 2007.

  1. Doppson
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    Doppson Junior Member

    Great Stuff Fast Fred!!

    i have recently realized that this design might not work out. As you said Fred, a v-mono hull would perform better but is still too fuel consuming.
    I did download some XLS files for calculating my earlier designs, and they did not work out for speeds excess of 14 knots..
    So i will go ahead and try out some catamaran idea's. With twin slender hull with a cabin above the water line in the mittle.
     
  2. foilcats
    Joined: Mar 2007
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    foilcats Stephen Snedden

    Enviromentally friendly boats

    In my "opinion" for a hull design it would be much better to spend the time working with a very experienced navel achitect that has already learnt from the best and improved from that and done prototypes and sea trials sorted through all the bull, save waisting alot of your precious time and you might even get a chance to market these great designs without copying any one and can even possibly work with him to help get them off the ground and to be the best package boats around, atleast thats what im doing and i also have alot of designs id like to try but after many years of having ago I decided its easier to help the best that needs a hand,
    As far as practical and earth saving power sytems goes we are limited to whats available at present,
    I like the sound of the Hydrogen engines that are starting to surface but they produce clorine as a waste gas so im not sure if this will be any better for environment than the existing fuels,
    Another type engine that always has intrigued me is the Magnetic engines that suposidly were suitable for aeroplanes and vehicles but the technolgy was squashed by the oil giants years ago and we havnt seen any sign of it, if any one knows about these Magnetic engines lease let us know, I heard about it from a 85+ year old lady Vera in NZ from the inventors club, this was 10 years ago she was still pedalling it then and was the agent in australasia, Actually im not sure shes still with us Ill ask around abit,
     
  3. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "Another type engine that always has intrigued me is the Magnetic engines that suposidly were suitable for aeroplanes and vehicles but the technolgy was squashed by the oil giants years ago and we havnt seen any sign of it, if any one knows about these Magnetic engines lease let us know, I heard about it from a 85+ year old lady Vera in NZ from the inventors club, this was 10 years ago she was still pedalling it then and was the agent in australasia,"

    Flying saucer power will work about as well.

    The MYTH of "the oil companies bought it and are hiding the concept" , can not stand the light of REALITY.

    Since very few 3rd world countries honor intelligent property (copyright or a patent) there is no constraints on copying anything & everything..

    With China coming on strong and more desperate for energy than the USA, the 200mpg cars , the free energy engines , anti gravity , and all the " hidden " tech would be on the shelves of Wall Mart.

    The oil folks as "Bad Guys" is great fiction , a religion too many , but hardly reality.

    FF
     
  4. tom28571
    Joined: Dec 2001
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    You are right Fred. There are a few exceptions but the rest are urban legends.:(
     
  5. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

    It's no urban legend that my damn gas cost $2.91 today.....
     
  6. Doppson
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    Doppson Junior Member

    hehe. your are right FF.

    my gas bill today is: 12kr/l . 1,75 USD/l 6,7usd/gallon!!!! insane
     
  7. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    It's no urban legend that my damn gas cost $2.91 today.....

    Its also no Urban Legend that,,

    there is no new US refineries in almost 40 years,

    Oil in the Gulf and along shore is unobtainable as NC SC GA FL CA WA OR don't want to look at rigs,might harm tourism

    Wind power is a no no, as drunken teddy K doesn't want to see windmills 10 miles to sea.

    No Nuke power plant has been built in 40 years.

    Colorado has more shale oil than the Arabian peninsula has oil.As does Canada

    The oil in ANWARr remains to "save" an empty arctic desert.

    The footprint of recovering the ANWAR oil is similar to a period on the page of the "All the News that Fits" paper.

    The Fischer Topsch 80 year old method of refining fuel from coal is flying a B 52 , but no refinerys are allowed.

    And you wonder why gas is pri$y?

    FF
     
  8. kach22i
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    kach22i Architect

    Build your own.

    DIY Magnetohydrodynamic Drive.
    http://www.neatorama.com/2006/09/21/diy-magnetohydrodynamic-drive/
    [​IMG]


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamic_drive
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamato_1
     

    Attached Files:

  9. jksoft
    Joined: Apr 2007
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    Location: Grenada

    jksoft Junior Member

    Are you referring to hydrogen fuel cells or hydrogen powered internal combustion engines? In either case, I am not aware of chlorine being in the emissions. The fuel cell is pretty much zero emission and the combustion engine certainly has fewer emissions than a gasoline powered engine. Are you referring to the process used to create the hydrogen?
    Jeremy
     
  10. charmc
    Joined: Jan 2007
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    charmc Senior Member

    Sorry, burning hydrogen does not produce chlorine as a waste product. The only byproduct of hydrogen combustion is heat and a small amount of water.

    Hydrogen itself is produced as a byproduct of the manufacture of chlorine and caustic soda. I believe this is what you "heard". Chlorine and caustic soda (sodium hydroxide NaOH) are separated from concentrated salt water (brine) by a process that uses electricity and special membranes. Chlorine and caustic are both chemicals in wide use for many industrial and municipal purposes, they are not by any means waste products.

    In general you are correct, however, in that the principle ways (there are several) of making hydrogen are not environmentaly friendly. Whatever method is used to produce hydrogen, whether it is reforming of natural gas or oil or electrolysis of fresh water or brine solutions, it is "heavy" industry and consumes vast amounts of energy. Hydrogen does not exist by itself in nature. It only exists in chemical compounds, from which it must be separated, purified, stored under extremely high pressures and/or very low temperatures, transported, and stored locally. Every step uses more energy than will be produced by the hydrogen fuel, and every step releases pollutants and greenhouse gases into the environment. There are methods of extracting hydrogen that are more efficient and more environmentally friendly but these are experimental, many years from being available for practical use. So for now, don't plan on hydrogen fuel in any affordable form.

    Solar charging of batteries for electrical power, perhaps with a small combustion engine for charging and/or propulsion when sunlight is not available seems like a fruitful area. The recent Trans-Atlantic crossing of a solar powered pontoon boat demonstrated reliability of the concept, and the increases in efficiency, reduction in size, portability, etc, etc, of solar panels would seem to make this a practical concept available now. Solar powered electrical drives yield the added benefit of silence, which could be a powerful sales benefit. Many variations on electrical and magnetic drives are in the development stage, and some are ready for production at affordable prices. It's an exciting field.
     
  11. tgwhite
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    tgwhite tom white

    The fine entry is not an impediment to safety provided you keep the water from entering the hull. The concave sides will result in too much resistance in as bow enters wave. On this design the D/L may be more relevant than the S/L
     
  12. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "On this design the D/L may be more relevant than the S/L."

    Agreed

    Probably the weight of the bat set will set the weight of the boat , and therefore the speed.

    FF
     
  13. ASM
    Joined: Sep 2005
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    ASM Senior Member

    Hi Doppson

    I love the black design you did, resembling the Wally power.... this type of design in 'in fashion' now, so like cars, they will tend to look similar. THe box keel, though speed is limited provides a perfect cooling surface for the electric motor and a flat working surface for the interior. If you want to gain a little more efficiency en drop in weight, try looking at a PU thrust tube rudder. This way you loose the (steel) rudder, have a better course keeping, efficiensy improvement and it might even be lighter. This thing works only up to 16 knots or so. Another option I know is a wing rudder out of GRP. see:
    http://www.poseidon-pde.nl/products/nozzles/index.html and http://www.poseidon-pde.nl/products/rudders/index.html
    Keep me updated, the designs you are making look similar to what I have in mind. Do you intend to build it at home in plywood ?
     
  14. Doppson
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    Doppson Junior Member

    This thread has turned out to be very good!!! Great stuff guys!!

    ASM i will build a Scale model ~1:10 - 1:12 in "a Designer Foam model" Sibbatol, i have no idea what the international name is for it......

    And i agree, the box keel would help hide and cool the electric engine.. but worried i won't get the speed i want, so im sorry to say, that i have ditched that design for a PowerCat design instead, but with the "in fashion design".im currently struggeling with the decsion, planning powercat hull or deplacement cat hull design and with our without foils... i do think a deplacement hull design will do, becasue the speed will probably not be that great for any foils and planning to take effect.
     

  15. Doppson
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    Doppson Junior Member

    Fast Fred, Tgwhite:

    you are all right, i agree, the Bat set will most likely set the weight of the design. And there are many different solutions or configurations for the bat set. Teslamotors have infact got a good Bat Set pack 1100lbs (very compact) , which seems to be the best Efficiency/W solution for the moment. it can carry the tesslamotor electric car beyond 200 miles.

    But as we all know, wheel resistance is far less compared to water friction caused by boats.
     
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