Isn't this place just great!!!

I think the problem here is one of "bycatch:" since we are obligated under the Constitution to allow private citizens in good standing unfettered access to weaponry, we also include those who just haven't been caught [yet. And there are so many of the things floating around it's not hard for anyone at all to get a roscoe of their own.

Well, this is kinda sorta wrong all the way through but i totally see what you're saying. Do we have anyone here from Switzerland? Where everybody has an assault rifle in the broomcloset? And some of the best marksmen in the world, too.

 

I so love these gun debates. Everyone is always so very passionate about their arguments and I have to say a lot of Americans seem to get overly defensive about anyone trying to discuss their firearm fixation.
In a recent current affair program that I saw a week ago it was discussing how there was a rush on people stocking up on firearms now that Barack is going into the White House. Scary, if you don't like a politician just vote them out next time around. We Aussies ***** about our mob but at least our pollies can still reasonably mix with the public without being assassinated.

How many American presidents have been killed?? with firearms......

How many school yard massacres have you had??? with firearms yet again......

The States I am sure is not the most violent place in the world and I would love to visit but you lot sure are good at making the headlines.

Is it so unsafe over there or do you all suffer severe paranoia? I keep hearing how you keep at weapon at home for home defence. From what I ask, I've spent my entire life with nothing more under my pillow then a condom and a breathmint.

I used to enjoy recreational shooting but really, many arguments that I hear rolled out time and again as to why every American should pack some heat all just seem to be a bit over the top to me.

Mychael

 

I am tempted to respond in the affirmative but it may provoke an actual response with firearms?

Added after Frosty's post - - - - "I can and I did....." 99 to 125 hehehe Feels good with this much impact.... - - - - - does that help Frosty?

 

Good post Mychael however my attempts at rewarding you with some points came up blank. I have to spread my reputation around a bit more, --something like that.

 

The basic problem with gun laws in this country is they couldn't be enforced, just too many guns. Eventually what will happen though is that bullets will require registration, which is very likely. One other step that has been discussed is the implementation of a "marked" round, much like what is seen in tasers. By this, the manufactures will be required to place "tags" inside the shell. When the weapon is fired, regardless of how careful the shooter is, hundreds of these nearly microscopic tags fly out, each identifying the round. From this the original purchaser can be tracked. Initially, there'll be lots of unmarked or registered rounds, but in 10 years 90% of these will be used up. This means that new rounds sold will have tags and an owner can be held liable.

Of course this opens up another dark side of society, the black market. It's an eventuality that can't be avoided, in spite of the best 2 amendment arguments offered. There will come a specific, particularly horrendous event, where legally acquired guns were used to mow down a bunch of people who didn't deserve it. Not that there hasn't been plenty of these in the past, but historically in this country, we'll rally around a single event, use it as a catalyst and wave it in the face of the pundants, who will have little choice but to back down or face mob mentality.

I personally have 7 guns, but frankly, there isn't a valid reason to retain the 2nd amendment. We don't need a local army, we don't need to hunt for food, we could easily live without shooting animals and target ranges could easily supply the weapons for customers to fire. No reasonable, intelligent person can argue that gun control laws aren't required or needed in this country. All arguments to the contrary, are folks clinging to things that just aren't practical, necessary or desirable in a modern society. Sure it's nice to hunt, but hunting could be arranged without the need for a rifle rack in the back window of a pickup truck. If you want to collect, this is possible too, following a very extensive back ground investigation and proper licensing (which should be expensive and hard to qualify for). This isn't asking too much.

Hey, I want to play with high explosives. All kinds of high explosives and I want to teach your kids how to play with them too. I promise not to sell any to *******s and not to drop any out of the truck of my car, honest. You can trust me, I will not let you down, I swear.

I use these explosives to hunt, catch my dinner and defend my property if necessary. Nothing deters a burglar better then a high explosive logo posted on the front door.

Look, just because something once was handy, maybe even necessary, doesn't mean it still is applicable.

It was once acceptable to own slaves, sell your daughter, kill your neighbor for growing two different crops in adjoining fields and friends could have your wife stoned for wearing a dress made from two different types of yarn. We used to employ children in factories 14 hours a day, didn't let woman vote or anyone that wasn't a land owner for that matter. Though we could still hire privateers to protect our maritime interests, we've elected to use our own Navy and USCG. This is just the tip of the iceberg in regard to things society has out lived in usefulness. Gun ownership should be the most difficult thing to obtain in this country, and all should be registered, with the owner responsible for any crimes that may be committed by it. We've out grown it, but there's always the "hold ons".

There were folks who fought freely to prevent women the right to vote. There were groups that insisted their industries would die without child labor. Of course we had to fight a war over slavery, which was dieing a natural death anyway (the cotton gin devalued cotton so much that slaves were nearly useless), but the "hanger ons" had to yell about something.

There's always someone who has to *****, usually in a very uninformed manor. The facts of gun control laws are quite simply overwhelming. It will likely be this generation that takes up this matter. The statistics show this is the case. Local, state and national park use is down 80% in the last 20 years. People just don't go out doors nearly as much as previous generations. It's too easy to stay inside and play with a video game. It not like when I was a kid and tromping through the woods was a cool thing. Now they want HD graphics and the ability to have extra lives if they screw up. This doesn't happen in real life.

Change is the most essential element of all existence. Without change the dinosaurs would still be here. Accepting change is a reality some grasp and others fight. In the end, change comes in spite of the prolonged efforts of the hanger ons. You can elect to be on the side that will eventually win or the one that will eventually die off.

 

The problem is that human nature has not changed.......

What was that think that happened in Africa not too long ago between the Tutses and the Tutus'.......oh, oh....I think it was genocide..........I think it was.....

 

Jerry, human nature has changed and done so repeatedly throughout history. This isn't to say some haven't "caught up" with more modern ideas of social relations, but as a rule, the world as a whole now believes things that once were quite acceptable, no longer should be. This is the natural evolution of society. You can't compare a third world nation, one that for all intent is basically a 1700's society, to a first world mind set. These are people that still sell their children, divorce their wives for having nothing but female babies and firmly believe that the magic pumpkin will visit them on Christmas morning, bearing gifts.

If you ask any person in a first world nation, if they think a 9 year old girl should work in a factory, 14 hours a day for a single dollar in pay, all will say this is wrong, but this is precisely what had to be legislated against in the early 20th century in this country. In a third world country, this and other less evolved concepts of society still take place. This will change there eventually, as they grow materialistly, economically and socially. As a society gains wealth and prosperity, it increases it's ability to relieve physical efforts by way of technology, it needs less and less physical regulation. Old concepts, typically in place as a control measure by elitists, are no longer as necessary. As a result, the society out grows the older concepts, usually in favor of a more socially beneficial and benevolent existence.

This is in fact the basic difficulty with the fundamentalist movements seen around the world. This is the classic clash of old world mentality, verses new world thinking. It's not a new thing and has been going on for many centuries. The fundamentalists want to live in the "old ways" having houses with dirt floors and using their fingers to eat supper, whereas the new world folks would prefer to use a fork at dinner and enjoy carpet under foot.

The Quakers or Pennsylvania Dutch are a typical examples of fundamentalist mentality, though fortunately they are quite benign. They refuse to accept most change and resist straying from the basic tenets of their belief system, which is rooted in 2,000 year old social values.

These folks historical get left behind eventually on a social level. As a world we've dealt with aggressive fundamentalists several times before. If they get too aggressive, as they are now, they will spawn the wrath of a united front against them. This wouldn't be the first world war against a fundamentalist movement, though the ramifications of a new one could have dire results if they gain much more power and influence. Genghis Khan efforts in the 11th century just about completely eliminated a previous fundamentalist movement. It was literally genocide on a high scale. The crusades attempted similar. I suspect we're on a like wise path, but as I said there will always be "hangers on" refusing to let go of the past, in favor of a different, hopefully better future. I'm getting old enough to be stuck in my ways, but I don't think I'm so closed minded, as to not accept change as it come down the pike.

 

You guys need to see the action in africa its way cool if you are looking for some gun fights.We had two private security companies employed by the same person take each other out in a taxi area they thought they were the bad guys(at least your guys wore different colour hats) .A cultural weapon is legal here .Maybe you think they are spears and stuff but nooooooo they be AK47 which can apparantly be obtained for R500.00 With 100 Rounds (55 USD)

 

Having been wounded in combat, multiple times, I can assure you there's absolutely nothing "way cool" about gun fights. It's not romantic, nor macho, it's horrifying and deplorable in every regard. It takes many years to get over and isn't something I recommend for even the worst of enemies. This also is an evolution of societies.

3,000 years ago the great dynasties would toss multi million men armies at each other, knowing full well that at the end of the day, there would be a 100,000+ dead to burn.

300 years ago tens of thousands would be tossed into the fray, with full knowledge that by sundown, several thousand wouldn't go home on foot.

30 years ago hundreds would engage with dozens dead.

Just a few years ago, the sight of a couple of downed pilot bodies, being dragged through the streets, was enough to cause the remaining several thousand forces to withdraw from the conflict.

The pattern is easy enough to see, if you've paid attention to history both past are present. Societies progressively have less stomach for these ritualized conflicts. This is the way it's supposed to be. It not glamorous as some writers who've never been through it might suggest. It's not brave nor courageous. It unfortunately is sometimes necessary, but eventually we as a society will out grow this need as well. I will not be alive to see it, but it's reassuring to know that it will come someday.

 

Thats why im building a Wharram Tiki 38 the people here are savages with no respect for human life.I want to live my life without fear.

 

Look at Zimbabwe!! we are dealing with a different people in Africa.

 

Its a hole.... but its our hole.

 

I know a South African couple that were driven out of Africa ,had to leave a farm etc and now it aint worth nothing. They are a nice older couple seemingly harmless and helpless too just wanting to live a good life.

To make things worse a SA passport and driving licence is not the best to travel with either.

 

My sympathies to those SA people Frosty.... This world will be a **** place for a while and survival in it will not necessarily be easy - **** Malcom Frazer for that phrase "Live was not meant to be easy" - - It was and should be easy - greed and the greedy **** it up.....

 

It will become a 6 ft hole about the size of a coffin if u are not careful.I did my national service here i did my bit, they need to enforce the laws (no new ones are required) and stop the theft of tax money(we lend to the government)And above all try to give these poor savage souls an education.Have you ever seen a african nation change governments without a civil??????war.(except NP to ANC)