Why I'm Following Sven Yrvind

And some folk still maintain that the traditional Herreshoff or fisherman type of anchor is absolutely the best.....

 

I like classic lines, open foredecks, effective cover from stink weather, room for guests.

Premise #1: everyone wants basically the same thing in a solo cruiser.

Premise #2: everyone gives the same value to "boat bucks" so money isn't a factor in the perfect cruiser.

Premise #3: Our family, work, and social lives are the same, so no need for excessive space, but everyone wants some extra space.

 

Perfect Will, now just squeeze it down to 7.99m so i can afford to berth it.

 

Since I was a kid, I have dreamed of living aboard and sailing the world. My fantasy boat would be under 50' (15.24m), because I understood that to be the length at which most marinas upcharge slip fees. The cost per length is higher above that point. However, slip fees have gotten so high now, that my fantasy boat is now based on anchoring out and taking a tender ashore. What is the perfect size? I want a tender that is easy to handle, gets to the dinghy dock and back before dark and won't let my groceries get wet in transport or transfer. Some of the SOR for my tender needs to include consideration of the mothership.

Of course, the Mariner 19 that I have to work with might be able to skip the tender and just tie up at the dinghy dock while I shop for groceries. In that case, under 20 feet is the perfect size. It might make me think hard before crossing an ocean, but I should be able to sail her anywhere in the States and the Caribbean with no issues. The cabin is small, but the cockpit is larger than many 24 foot boats. So, room to entertain.

 

You have to watch the video. I don’t have to add anything to what the gentleman said about how he came to that conclusion. I said that he is *probably* right. I said it because he based his opinion on facts and experience.

 

You make an assumption i did not watch it. It is his opinion, that you happen to agree is "probably right". Fine. Others have their own experience to voice an opinion, but that does not mean they are "right" either. I do not have much experience compared to some, only 20,000 off shore single handed miles, and I prefer boats under 30ft. I make no claims to it being perfect for everyone, and certainly I expect not many to agree. Its an opinion based on my own experience and you are most welcome to disagree.

 

You may not berth the big boat in a marina on a regular basis, but come haul out time once a year and bottom paint, that is still gonna hurt. Maybe something like an Atkin Magpie,49ft, nice 12ft rowing and sailing dinghy on deck, lots of room for stowage and world girdling ability. Certainly a nice dream for those with means, but the Carribean has been "cruised" by people in sailing canoes, ergo your Mariner 19 is luxury to some people.

Yann Quenet has recently circumnavigated in a 4m-13ft homebuilt scow, as 4,000 euros is all he could afford. I know people who have spent more than that accumulating building plans, and STILL have not started building anything........and life slips us all by.

 

This ones for you Will.



MiniTroll – Brouns

 

The reason I DON'T follow Sven Y. is that his objective is what I categorize as a "stunt", yet he speaks as if he is revealing greater truths. Doing things out of the ordinary can yield interesting experience and data, but he plopped into a solution that I am so confident is useless that (I concluded that) the endeavor is not about achieving anything more than being an old man that young men will listen to. I don't want to be his audience (that's not a sailboat, it's an overbuilt bobber he can occupy) but I don't want to be his troll either.

The discussion here has turned to "what is the best..." which you have covered pretty well. Will G. succinctly covered most of it in post 362. I could make it into a formula and an optimization, but there would still be something big missing. I would suggest that such a formula would fail to predict desirability without including an imaginary component.
What does the sailor think he is accomplishing?
My boat is better because it is faster (without competition proof).
My boat is safer (though it has not gone far or anywhere).
My boat is more authentic classic.
My boat is more luxurious or is just a greater expression of my wealth.

I have more respect for Yann Quenet's creation, but it again reinforces my argument for an "imaginary" component. I am one of the least pretentious people you will meet, but I could not be satisfied with his scow if for no other reason than that just doesn't fit enough life for the time I would spend in it. What is the value in a simple and small cruiser if it isn't good enough to justify liquidating your terrestrial home? If the home you are sailing away from costs 7 figures, is it so hard to justify a 7 figure sailboat? I think it is safe to say that the size and quality of the cruising sailboat you choose will have a greater bearing on your happiness than size and quality of your home. Maintenance for large sailboats is expensive, but have you seen the taxes on 7 figure homes? With some tax residence arbitrage, cruising can be a less expensive alternative.

 

Its hard really to knock an 83 year old guy, but then again he does push back. I made a comment about his mizzen mast step being overbuilt, which he justified (of course), but probably forget he had done a specific calculation on the loads on his carbon masts in the event of a roll over, some years ago......I do not think he remembers just what he has said or done in the past, such is his fixation with "the next boat".

I know of only one boat built to his design, by a young couple. His ideas and boats may be absolutely ideal for "his" needs, but the market has shown they have no interest in a "mountain bike of the seas".

As to the home-Vs-boat angle. Yann kept his home. There is a big mental gap in someone who gives up all and everything they own on land for a life at sea, and those going on an extended cruise/holiday. The happiest cruisers I met usually had a home that was being rented, if they lost the boat or just decide to swallow the anchor, they just go back to where they started. Your point is well taken though, boats I came across that had washing/dryer machines and air-con, where usually US flagged. Nothing wrong with taking your home comforts with you, if you can afford it, and can deal with the maintenance.

 

Just before covid I saw an Amel Maramu for sale that made me want to catch the next plane. That's the original 46, as solid and sorted a design as you will find, from a company still alive, thriving/supporting, and from what I could see after a thorough refit it would still be under 6 figures. That still stands as my point of reference.
There is a good video of a young couple that gave up urban life for a decked out Super Maramu (53') that discusses all their costs. I didn't envy his constant upkeep contracting. The point it drove home to me was that the cost and time of paying others to do maintenance is a problem.
This brings me to my point -$100k and ~$30k/year is all it takes for very capable cruising lifestyle in 46ft for someone that can do the work. If you can't or won't do the work, multiply that by 5 to 10X.
Building one of these tiny cruisers costs $50k and that is not counting your thousands of hours. Citing cost as the reason to go small is crazy. If you have the skill and time it takes to build, you have the time and skill to make several hundred dollars an hour maintaining someone else's boat AND you have the money to buy and refit a full size boat. Going back to my imaginary dimension of merit, I think the "tiny ocean crossing cruiser" movement mostly wants to think of themselves as innovators and designers and not utilitarian tradesmen.

 

Some people who want to cruise may not own a home, or else, they may not want to give it up, if they want to cruise only for a limited period, instead of the foreseeable future. And "good enough" is extremely subjective.

I see Sven Yrvind as a tinkerer and inventor first, and a sailor second. If he wanted to sail only, he could have stuck with the boat he had 30 years ago. But he spends more time building than cruising.

The Bris sextant is ingenious, and I also like how he adapted the Zeppelin bend to make a loop. It's a much nicer knot than the bowline.

There are several boats closely modeled on what Sven sailed 30 years ago, at least one of which crossed the Atlantic: brisbåt - maggies keramik - yrvind - bygga båt http://sofiaboat.se/ Those have a reasonable claim to being mountain bikes of the seas. With his 2017 and 2020 boats, he got so focused on going downwind in the Southern ocean that he made the boats so long and narrow, giving up stability because he still wants shallow draft, and the rig so low and small that he didn't trust the boats to go upwind at all. In his last voyage, he stayed well clear of the Faroes so that he would never be closer than about 100 miles from a lee shore. That is not a mountain bike of the oceans, that is a gravity bike of the oceans, and has very limited application.

(These are gravity bikes)

 

Did the gentleman say all that? I thought he began answering the question he was asked with these words: "There is no right answer....."

 

Valid point. I have never met a cruising boat that asked to get towed 50 miles offshore (in Ireland), because of worries of coastal traffic and getting embayed in Biscay. A boat like that is a liability to the person onboard, and anyone who may be called upon to rescue him from some rocky shoreline. Not that i put sailing ability to windward in a gale as a high priority these days, as it leads to much design compromise for the other 99% of the time in use.

 

Sven never lets on how much his boats cost. The way he lashes epoxy shows he is not too concerned with savings. Are you familiar with the Setka design? Many a young (and not so young) Pole has built these, and some take part in the Setka Atlantic "race". These really are sub 10K boats,, and at least a dozen have safely crossed the Atlantic with no issues. SETKĄ PRZEZ ATLANTYK 2020 - Janusz Maderski JACHTY - BUDOWA, KONSTRUKCJE

Otherwise, not much wrong with what you also posted, except some people, actually enjoy the build process. The world is flooded with used boats. No reason to actually build one to "save money", but plenty of reason to get a boat that may not exist or just for the experience.

As one who went through an entire design process and started building a one-off 26ft motor-sailor, I knew the bare-bones boat was going to cost me a minimum of 20K. When a plastic boat around the same size that had 95% of the benefits I wanted for less than 2k, I bought it. That "saved" 18k would have been comfortable cruising kitty.