Is the ocean broken?

Actually, yes there is, sort of. If there is not enough moisture on the surface of the ground to be available to evaporate, then the higher temperatures will dry the ground and vegetation even further -- which is what the article said.

Eastern CA and NV (as well as eastern OR and WA, and eastern WY and CO) are in a "rain shadow" from the Sierras (and the Cascades, and the Rockies). Moisture picked up in the Pacific ocean is chilled and precipitates out as it goes over the Sierras. Then the now-dryer and -warmer air starts sucking moisture out of ground and vegetation to the east of the Sierras. That's why the deserts of the South West exist where they do. The moisture content of the dry air builds as it travels eastward, then goes over the Rockies and again gets precipitated out. The evaporative process starts again in eastern CO and KS, which is why they are so much dryer than western CO and the states east of Kansas.

eta: Rain shadow

No, you have it backwards. Cooling causes condensation, but the condensation process actually releases heat.

Likewise, evaporation requires heat, but when water evaporates it absorbs heat, and chills. That is why you feel cooler when you get out of a swimming pool, even if the air temperature is warmer than the water temperature, because the evaporation process pulls heat from your body, chilling you.

Phase Change and Latent Heat

I rather doubt that a few feet/yards of increased sea level will increase the ocean's surface area by much, as a percent.

 

True enough, I miss typed. But rainfall does cool.

This is all true, but it is a matter of relative humidity and works this way regardless of temperature. Having more overall moisture in the air, due to warmer air, seems like it would mean more condensation nuclei brought out of the air faster, leaving a higher remaining saturation level after the rain is done. Condensation needs something to condense on, otherwise, water remains vapor when below the saturation level.

You haven't been following the projections about the loss to real estate? Most of Florida, much of lower Louisiana, any coral-based Islands and low level land masses.

Not saying what they are talking about on this video is inevitable and they are only talking about ten to twenty feet of sea level rise, not the 70 meters last discussed on this thread. Sounds like a lot of extra evaporative surface, to me.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

Only if it evaporates, or if the rain itself is cooler than the land it falls on.

Apparently atmospheric scientists think that the net result in certain places (CA and NV) will result in stronger drying conditions, and therefore more chances of drought.

I am aware of the projections of land lost to sea level rise, but as a percent of the total ocean surface area it is negligible. Therefore, the amount of ocean area available to evaporate from is pretty much the same.

Just to be clear, we mentioned a 70m sea level rise if all ice melted, but no one is projecting that all the ice will melt for many centuries, if ever.

Sea level rise

 

That graph puts it all into perspective, for me.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

IN, you have it wrong. Condensation doesn't release heat. The loss of heat itself is what enabled the molecules to condense.
Furthermore, particulates in the air are required for condensation to occur.
That's meteorology not climatology.

 

As ice is lost, the land mass becomes lighter and floats higher on the mantle, thus exposing more of the land mass above sea level.

 

In talking physics I'm getting in way over my head. But this is what I understand.

As you mentioned, the gas has to lose heat to condense. Where does that heat go? It goes into the surroundings, which, necessarily, heat up.

Enthalpy of vaporization

...enthalpy changes of condensation are always negative (heat is released by the substance)...

...An alternative description is to view the enthalpy of condensation as the heat which must be released to the surroundings to compensate for the drop in entropy when a gas condenses to a liquid....​

 

Rebound is very slow compared to ice loss. Also, since ice is much less dense than rock, the volume of the rebounding rock will be much less than the volume of the melting ice.

 

Note that the graph only pertains to sea level rise from melting Antarctic ice. It does not include melting Greenland ice, nor melting mountain ice, nor the expansion of sea water as it gets warmer.

 

At least you admit rebound. It has been going on for thousands of years.

 

Think.
Rain clouds don't make the air warmer. Cooling air is what makes the rain clouds.
Stop putting the cart before the horse.

 

"Admit"??? I've discussed it a number of times in the past, including with you.

Is the ocean broken? https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/is-the-ocean-broken.48693/page-7#post-883667
Ocean News https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/ocean-news.54343/page-167#post-812681
Ocean News https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/ocean-news.54343/page-15#post-759656

 

In order for water vapor to condense it has to be chilled.

In order for the water vapor to be chilled, heat has to be removed from the water vapor.

That heat has to go somewhere. Where does it go?

Because the water is going through a phase transition (gas to liquid, or liquid to solid), heat will be removed from the water (gas or liquid) without the temperature of the water dropping. That heat has to go somewhere. Where? It goes into the warming up the cold air that is chilling the water. Thus, in fact, the whole system gets warmer, even though the net amount of energy remains constant (I think -- which is what you wanted me to do <laugh>).

 

Since New Zealand is one of the few countries to both keep its economy going and keep its COVID-19 numbers extremely low, I wondered if a thoughtful person might be curious to know what New Zealand's attitude towards climate change is.

New Zealand declares a climate change emergency

• Prime minister Jacinda Ardernhas called climate change “one of the greatest challenges of our time”
• She has committed to a carbon-neutral government by 2025
  
• The government sector will be required to buy only electric or hybrid vehicles, the fleet will be reduced over time by 20% and all 200 coal-fired boilers used in the public service’s buildings will be phased out
  
• Their Climate Change Commission is tasked with putting the whole country on a path to net zero emissions by 2050

 

And while we're on the subject of New Zealand:

New Zealand experiences warmest winter on record

• The winter of 2020 was 1.14C above average
• 17 locations setting record-breaking mean temperatures, and 53 other locations ranked within their top four warmest winters.
• Seven of the 10 warmest winters on record in New Zealand have now occurred since 2000. “It just showcases the trajectory that we are on.”