Herreshoff's catamaran reasoning

sigurd · May 26, 2016

CT 249 said: ↑

Am I being too harsh when I think that Bernard Smith is a bit of a whacko? I've looked at a lot of his stuff and there seems to be repeated examples of some crude rig shoved onto a Canadian canoe and sailed in 4 knot breezes on a lake for an hour. There always seems to be some deep reason why he can't get out and get his creations working. Hell, he's been trying for decades....Surely some time in the last 40 years he's had time to get it all together if the basic ideas were ever going to succeed.

Frank Bethwaite used to try his Smith type boats in front of my house when I was a kid. He describes them in HPS, and points out the basic flaws. He went on to make the HSP which was great buzz to sail.

The planing cat and inclined rig have been tried many. many times, with very little success AFAIK. Lots of people say windsurfers go fast because they derive lift from windward cant, but the rigs are actually very close to vertical most of the time. Hell, look at the pics of Eric setting the new world speed record; his rig is about as upright as he can get it. I have been coached by the Olympic bronze medallist in windsurfers and he got me to stick the rig as vertical as I could. Upwind, when we have the rig raked to windward, boards are less competitive than downwind when the rig sits pretty much vertical (in the sideways plane). On boards we can easily cant our rigs miles to windward; we don't because we know it's slow (as I had driven home to me when I tried short harness lines in the last raceboard nationals.....ohhh the pain and ignominy).

So all that stuff that Smith goes on about......hell, I dunno. It's been tried for decades without success. When theory fails in practise despite many efforts for decades, isn't that an indication that the theory is wrong?
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Sailrocket? Monofoil?

.................
Skippy, the point about equilibrium/stability is very pointed. Jon Howes had a really good site with text about his monofoil. If you look crudely at it, it's like a Smith boat but with only one hook in the water. It then has aero stability instead. It's like the ancient hapa/sailplane concept but rigidly tied together. I think the good site is gone and replaced with something lesser, been a long time.
I think some of the moral is that fast boats should have as little as possible to do with water, because when you go fast, the air is dense enough to carry and direct you, and more efficient and much softer and less lumpy. Water contact is needed for sideforce only, but the implementation where the leeboard thingy generates both up and downforce, to track the surface, makes a lot of sense.

Skip JayR · May 26, 2016

What means "safe" on a monofoil ?

sigurd said: ↑

Skippy, the point about equilibrium/stability is very pointed. Jon Howes had a really good site with text about his monofoil. If you look crudely at it, it's like a Smith boat but with only one hook in the water. It then has aero stability instead. It's like the ancient hapa/sailplane concept but rigidly tied together. I think the good site is gone and replaced with something lesser, been a long time.
I think some of the moral is that fast boats should have as little as possible to do with water, because when you go fast, the air is dense enough to carry and direct you, and more efficient and much softer and less lumpy. Water contact is needed for sideforce only, but the implementation where the leeboard thingy generates both up and downforce, to track the surface, makes a lot of sense.
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Tks, Sigurd.

You mean Jonathan Howes at Monofoil Sailing ?
email jon.howes@monofoil.com

Big words by Jon on his website, citiation:

Breaking 100 Knots

Monofoil has been designed to reach an outright top speed in excess of 100 knots. While this may seem wildly ambitious in conventional sailing terms, it is a relatively modest speed in an aeronautical environment.

Cruising at 50 knots

The loads and stresses on Monofoil have been carefully calculated to be safe at 100 knots. This means that at fairly low speeds of around 50 to 70 knots Monofoil will still be "flying", but the loads will be greatly reduced and well inside the design parameters. This will make Monofoil ideal for both short, fast runs and longer ocean passage records...
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At least, last stentence gives the real risks behind: "The craft’s only limitations are likely to be down to pilot endurance and nerve."

sigurd · May 26, 2016

Exactly that Jon Howes.

Hm, one would have to use lots of cleverity to make it a comfortable ocean crossing boat I think - merely passing the martini test seems a challenge, maybe use XL cups? As the saying goes, 'in need the devil eats flies'.

Angélique · Jan 29, 2017

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There's some more N. G. Herreshoff Catamaran info of the year 1900, and older, in post #4 of the thread Very Old Catamaran Plan C 1895.

BobBill · Jan 29, 2017

Appreciate it.

brian eiland · Jan 30, 2017

Angélique said: ↑

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There's some more N. G. Herreshoff Catamaran info of the year 1900, and older, in post #4 of the thread Very Old Catamaran Plan C 1895.
Click to expand...

Thanks for bringing this subject thread back up, and for this posting

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Herreshoff's catamaran reasoning

sigurd Pompuous Pangolin

Skip JayR Tri Enthusiast

sigurd Pompuous Pangolin

Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

BobBill Senior Member

brian eiland Senior Member

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