A maximalist outboard cruiser, why not?

That's a pretty good idea.

Though I need to confess the berth I've been trying to get as far forward has ended up in maximum dimensions, widest/longest, almost like some king size bed. The box I've been using to try to establish guesstimate for the foundation (which I manipulate on screen and then intersect with a plane) wound up able to hold, with 2" to spare in width and 3" in length (to help make the bed and provide space for rails if desired), a 32" x 81" mattress. The offset angle is about 9.5 degrees from centerline. With nothing to go by I made the 2' deep notch 2' wide at the foundation at the widest.

It's just 16" farther back and a few inches longer than I'd first hoped, but then I realized that space could be used for wide shelf for a flat screen TV and related gadgets and yield a space to possibly keep and entertain all the nieces and nephews.

 

Almost all the population of the world was created in double beds , about 54 wide.

The key to comfort is never the bed width , but the ability to easily climb out of bed to visit the head in the dark.

As you get older this function becomes important.

Doing a back flip over the pillows from a V berth is less enjoyable as time goes by..

 

Got any examples of bow mounted engined motor yachts?

All Google is showing me are those little electric fishing clip-on motors and some bow thrusters.

One of my all time fave boats, the WW2 S-Boat and the lux-communter yacht it was developed from, had 3 motors spread about the middle, which I gotta think helped smooth the ride.

 

Good point about tumbling out of bed, Fred.

The Wyoming had a trunk cabin forward, if just barely, that visually blended in with the forward cockpit. I suppose one would describe the berth that resulted as "crawl space".

Good news is I finally plugged some numbers into Gerr's Elements of Boat Strength and there would be a few more inches to play with.

Of course, there's also a boat like Rambler ... http://virtual.muskokamagazine.com/doc/muskoka-magazine/acb2013/2013062601/17.html

I believe she's a Drake Tail. I envisioned that sort of superstructure on my attempts designing a paddle wheel boat.

 

Kevin,

Thank you for all the advice, suggestions. All very relevant. Though I am very aware of the coating/covalent bond processes for aluminum, we in aerospace may not actually bond the insulation to the aluminum, as post operation inspections (D check etc), require physical visual inspection of both surfaces. We are making progress with bore scopes etc, but the FAA 's requirement is still there.

In this case Aluminum may well be an excellent material for this project.

Re super yachts. Their interiors do not seem to have a very long life, being redecorated with new owners, or to follow the dictates of fashion fairly often. In the past I advised an Irish fine woodworking company on attaching their beautiful wood paneling to the aluminum internal structure of such a yacht. I had to research and advise on suitable adhesives, with enough elasticity in them to allow the aluminum and wood to expand and contract differently. Eventually they used several different layers of material with graduated thermal response between the aluminium and solid wood paneling. I also learned many (most) super yachts have basically a free floating interior, so it does not flex when the hull or superstructure does. Apparently these passengers/guests associate the room walls flexing, or moving, with weakness, and 'it's about to break'.

Re forward set motors. Hardly a yacht, super or otherwise, but the trimaran tour boats on the Seine in Paris use a sail drive under the bow, and another under the stern, about 80' apart. These allow suburb maneuverability, and just running with the forward sail drive only (I tried it), seems to work just fine. I'm not commenting on its efficiency in this configuration.

Though a long shaft, comprised of several car or truck prop shafts, would work, it does take space in a valuable part of the boat. Offsetting such, or having two in parallel might help, but increase complexity. I might consider a motor gen-set way forward, in the forepeak or under the bunk, and use an electric motor direct coupled to the prop.

 

Materials reinforced with other materials, particularly when the reinforcement is highly anisotropic, is a specialist subject.

Basically, when these materials are mixed, the material with the lowest elasticity in the direction of the load takes this load. The other material is merely dead weight, or lateral (buckling) support.

For example, a fiber glass covered plywood boat has the fiberglass as the tension and compression element, whilst the plywood acts as multiple close spaced stringers in supporting the fiberglass element in buckling, and keeps it in plane under compression load.

Long ago, people worried about fiberglass and wood could not bond readily due to thermal expansion differences. In fact, marine epoxies especially, have additives reducing their inherent brittleness to increase elasticity, but in fact the fiberglass/epoxy is still so stiff and strong the wood typically follows it, and cannot really resist, though it might split. This is generally why plywood, a quasi isotopic material, is covered with WOVEN glass fabric. The crimps in the fiberglass weave prevent the glass fibers from developing their full capability in tension or compression, and the plywood is stable enough to be a match.

Not having straight fibers is important when covering, or reinforcing, a wood boat. In fact when carbon fiber tape is bonded to woven carbon fiber, the woven element takes almost no load in compression or tension, though it does contribute to bending resistance.

Boat building has a long history of laminating differing materials, canvas was added as layers between veneers or layers of wood even in the 1890's. A famous example being the Pearl, built by the Logan Bro's in Auckland and stolen by Feilex von Luckner for his escape from NZ. Asked later, he praised the boat, claiming he could not think of a better boat for his impromptu journey.

I've never heard of laminating steel wire, woven or otherwise, used in an otherwise wooden boat. Even if the wire were galvanized, cut ends would still be a corrosion hazard. Drilling holes in the panels might also be an issue when you hit a wire. I suspect the reason we hadn't heard of this is that though this was invented, in practical terms the steel wire had too little elasticity, and the adhesives available would not grip well enough, so the system as such failed.

There are so many successful fiberglass covered plywood boats out there that I would use this process, unless I used welded Aluminum.

 

Alan, I was actually thinking less about the shell of the boat than the frames and bulkheads which, if they are bent at all, are bent in just one direction. They are also away from (most of) the water.

Making even developed panels, or rather custom molded panels, to contain a reinforcement like this would be a real bear. It might be not overly difficult to make "engineered lumber planks" on some narrow/long adjustable, heated (if not using epoxy), vacuum table though if only because the individual pieces wouldn't be so overwhelming.

edit: might be good for the thin ply they put in box springs. My sister broke her hip and while I was putting the rails on the bed I kinda found out about the thin ply they used....

 

AH, bulkheads are another story.

A monohull hull is protected in torsion by the existence of bulkheads or frames along its length. These bulkheads see this load as compression (or tension) across their face, which might result in local buckling*. This is classically resisted by stabilizing the bulkhead with local stiffeners 'normal' to the bulkhead surface, or by bulkhead thickness. Though adding steel wire 'fiber' reinforcement would easily achieve the compression/tension numbers, the wooden part to stabilize these fibers laterally ie keep them in 'column', would need to be thick enough to provide the tension/compression numbers by themselves. Ie not worth the effort.

My personal preference for light weight bulkheads is using 3/4" or 1" thick battens around the outer edges and any cutouts, covered by 1/4" or 3/8" ply, depending on boat size. The spaces between the battens is completely filled with 3/4" or 1" thick stiff blue builders foam. I also add solid straight battens, usually on the diagonal, along supposed load pathes, so there is no space more than 18" to 24" wide.

The whole assembly is glued into one piece, usually before standing them in the building jig. Each area of foam insulation needs a small hole or two drilled through one ply surface so air and gas can equalize pressure over time. The wood and foam, and the glue, will out-gas with varying temperatures and humidity etc. Tthe jury is still out on whether routing groves in the foams surface is strictly necessary. Make sure any such grooves made for wiring etc, especially through the edges of any battens, is 'balanced' port and starboard, up and down, again to prevent local distortion.

This relatively thick bulkhead gives a rather wide land for the skin stringers, and in my opinion, the skin itself should NOT touch the skin, lest it form hard spots.

The most extreme example of wire reinforced bulkhead is to remove the bulkhead, wood?' And just leave the metal wire, or bar, in tension, across the space. Examples of this include some racers where the metal bar simply extends the chainplate through the accomidation.

* Frames on the other hand see this load as pure radial compression/tension, around the frame itself. An argument can be made for a frame of say 2" X 2" section wood with two or more steel wires 'inside' this, i.e. radially around the hull circumference.

 

My apologies to you Richard, but there is ONE type of multihull that could provide a solution to this challenge, a road portable OB cruiser for the "Loop"; the Trimaran.

If we imagine a dory, or 'square boat' like a 'Bolger State' boat, say 40-50' LOA, and 5'-6' WLB. Though we could flair the hull sides, to increase accomidation, too much flair might defeat the road transport requirement. Perhaps a wide deck aft is acceptable.

Because it's a multihull, increased freeboard is not quite the aesthetic, or stability, issue it might be with a monohull. Possibly because of the limited beam, I think the interior might be restricted to a double stateroom forward and aft, with access from the middle.

I might seriously consider a pair of water-jet personal water craft, or 'jet-ski's' as Arma's adjacent to the stern quarters. I'm assuming the Arma's are attached with portable beams, possibly aluminum mast sections.

Power might be a single OB on the center hull transom, with the Jet-ski's as emergency or auxiliary power for enhanced sped.

This example is from NZ I think, and has cruised in the Pacific Islands.

Note; I seem unable to load multiple images at present, any advice?

 

There is a big difference between doing the "Loop" or similar inland trips, and offshore cruising between islands.

And that is that you will come along side frequently, sometimes to lock walls, often to pilings, not just anchoring out. So mooring and tying alongside easily has to be a major factor in the design.

As I said in my article, you have to be a very clever helmsman (unlike me) to always come alongside perfectly, so that the crew can just step ashore with warps. I know from my small trimarans just how much harder it is to come alongside in a boat where you cannot stand at the very bow, than on a catamaran where you can

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

www.sailingcatamarans.com

 

I'm not sure if it will be obvious why your post made me think of this, but, I've long suspected that car GPS units were the brainchild of a man who was sick of his wife asking him to stop and get directions.

 

My post, 'Afordable, live aboard cruiser' #171, might be relevant in a wild sort of way.
It describes a 40' long trimaran type that can sail, or FLY, if you are in a hurry.

The following is a quote from my earlier post.

"It appears that 300hp could get you literally flying at 50+kts, so i have taken the liberty of cartooning your boat both sailing, and flying. I have used some very obscure, and rather old techniques to do so. The boat will be flying in “Ground Effect’ which allows far greater lift per unit area of ‘wing’. I have increased dihedral significantly so the vehicle is inherently stable laterally, in roll. By using a rather obscure control scheme, occasionally used by cruise missiles, called ‘twist and roll’ i can dispense with vertical rudders, and minimize roll in a turn. This means the plane will stay reasonably ‘flat’ i.e. horizontal, during a turn. Finally, i chose a ‘canard’ layout, in fact a version of Reinhold Platz’s work (he was Antony Fokker’s chief designer) using ‘soft’ wings. This means the wings suport the generally aft biased weight distribution of a planing boat, rather than the generally forward weight distribution of an airplane.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platz_glider

It just so happens these same masts and sails can be used to ‘sail’ as well as fly, and you can use the same masts and struts, though flying speed is limited. As flying height is limited by ‘ground effect’ i think a water propeller on the end of a long shaft, from the forefoot of the boat would work quite well, and be self regulating in flying height as well. An airplane propeller, like a swamp boat, would also work, but it is not as efficient as a water propeller.

The next step is to do a proper ‘weigth and balance’ to get the dimensions and weights better, but these rough sketches will be close.
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Excellent points, I had not considered these. As usual you are correct. I guess we are back to long, skinny, monohull's.

 

For a few joyful hours yesterday and today I worked at cleverly arranging quarter berths for four fore and aft of a flying bridge resulting in very efficient use of the volume and all it would take was a couple of 5 step ladders ... and then I remembered ... handicapped sister ... family full of weak knees and backs ... some issues with small spaces (why so many steps) ...

SORs can be SUCH a pain!

... it was nice while it lasted though....

EDIT: offset bridge as a walk up solved the issue. No steps to get from the front to the rear of the cabin.

 

I know there are propane refrigerators.

Are there propane slow cookers for marine use?

Tonight it was "round steak slow cooker" and "small potatoes slow cooker".

I've decided I can't say anything bad about Google for the next little while for probably obvious reasons.