Blackrock 24 (Build)

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by LP, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. SukiSolo
    Joined: Dec 2012
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    Location: Hampshire UK

    SukiSolo Senior Member

    So now you can become expert at concave sanding....;)

    Nice work LP.
     
  2. LP
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    Location: 26 36.9 N, 82 07.3 W

    LP Flying Boatman

    My favorite tools........at the moment.

    These are my current favorites for the current task at hand.

    image.jpg

    The middle one is the boss. It makes lots of noise and eats through anything that gets in it's way, including stray nails. Watch out! It also blows dust everywhere so masking up is an absolute necessity. I even "tent" the work area with plastic to contain (attempt) the dust to the boat for clean up. Finesse is key with this beast. Careful application in long sweeping strokes keeps it from consuming too much material or causing more work to be cleaned up with less aggressive tools.

    The grinder on the bottom is quickly becoming my favorite tool for removal of wayward epoxyin more delicate situations. It's light and small so it's less clumsy than the breast and it doesn't hide your work as you use it. I've grown especially fond of using it to put a feather edge on epoxied tapes and for knocking off the stitching of cured biax tapes. It doesn't throw nearly as much material in the air as the beast, considering it is a pneumatic tool, but power sanding almost always needs a mask. It's brother, not pictured, has a 3/4" grindstone it it that has a radiused head and is great for cleaning up sloppy fillets in tight places.

    The top one is your basic orbital sander, but it added a minor detail to it to help it get into concave locations. I've taken a piece of 1/4" closed cell foam and placed it underneath the sandpaper. The foam is a consumable idem like the sandpaper, but it soften the edges of the sander and let's it ride into ithe nside curves of the hull very nicely.
     
  3. LP
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    Location: 26 36.9 N, 82 07.3 W

    LP Flying Boatman

    The boat is my workshop.

    I've set up shop in the boat. The galley is my workbench and I've placed a layer of ply behind the cabin area as my epoxy bench. A 7' high storage shelf on the garage wall has become convenient storage for power tools within easy reach(now only 6' high), but outside of the boat to keep the clutter down.

    Mentally, I've had to break the boat down into multiple smaller areas so that I am able too concentrate a little more readily on the major task that is ahead. Turning the hull over has revealed the tremendous nature of the project ahead and making smaller projects out of the larger one has made it it all a little less daunting. There are about seven areas that I've blocked out. The forepeak, starboard settee, starboard sft storage, galley and port quarter berth, and the port side cockpit storage.

    The forepeak (V-berth area forward) has been smoothed, filleted, taped and sheathed. The mast step has been completed. I'm ready to put in the chain locker and the v-berth decking. To starboard, the planking in the settee area (three frame bays) has been smoothed, filleted, taped and sheathed. The panels for the settee are already made, but are in need of final refinements such as access panels and ventilation holes. These two areas are my current focus and as they get completed, I'll draw additional areas of the boat into to the mix. There is absolutely no shortage of work to be done now and I'll have to keep a close eye on materials to make sure I have adequate stock on hand to keep the progress going.

    There is not a lot to see that is different, other than the new un-inverted orientation of the hull. Here is one of the cleaned-up and sheathed v-berth area. Of note, is the inverted V of fillet on the hull planking at the run transition. This is where I had the hard corner on the outside of the hull and some plank thinning it make it fair. The fillet added some thickness back and a layer of 27 oz triax was laid over it for strength and additional bulking of the area.
     

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  4. LP
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    Location: 26 36.9 N, 82 07.3 W

    LP Flying Boatman

    I've been plugging away at the starboard side settee.

    The plank is sheathed here and ready for the secondary structure.
    IMG_0158.JPG

    All of the pieces fitted for the settee. The lines are drawn for the access panels. Note to self: When able, leave 6" margin with structure to allow for unobstructed taping in the upside down areas.
    IMG_0160.JPG

    Current status. Hatches cut, upside down taping done, hatch supports installed.
    IMG_0185.JPG

    I had some extra time today so I climbed into the aft two frame bay and ground and smoothed the inside planking in preparation for sheathing. The dust production is incredible. 3 of 14 frames bays to go with this dirty chore.
     
  5. LP
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    Location: 26 36.9 N, 82 07.3 W

    LP Flying Boatman

    It's a back and forth issue. I'm working in the stern, then I'm working in the bow. I'm so confused. Not really, but It's keeps things interesting. I was getting low on thin, wet out epoxy so I shifted gears for a while to use my higher viscosity epoxies until I could get some more thin stuff. So,,,,,,, into the caboose I went with thickened epoxy for fillets and biax tape for reinforcement. The aft two frame bays are filleted and taped, now waiting for the thin stuff so I can sheathed them. To stretch out my thin resin, I went 50/50 with thin and medium viscosities to keep the wet out of the tapes relatively easy. This worked surprisingly well and gave me twice as much resin to work with.

    It's been a while since I assessed my plywood situation. I had made some scantling changes after ordering plywood way back when and so some of it had gotten reassigned to other areas of the boat. I've got enough of the good stuff to do the V-berth, the cockpit seating, start on the deck the fore and aft portions of the cabin. I will need to purchase more to finish the deck, build the cabin sides(if I use ply) and the cabin top.

    Speaking of V-berth, knowing what plywood is getting used where makes it a whole lot easier to start cutting it into smaller pieces for the boat. I was able to get the entire v-berth platform from a single piece of ply. The major portion is a single piece while the forward two feet (and 4") is split down the middle. I'm just doing a simple butt joint here with tape on either side since the joint will have a structural member running directly beneath it.

    Fitted and ready for details.
    IMG_0188.JPG


    The under side with access panels cut and panel supports being glued in place. The corner supports are 2-2.5" wide and offer lots of faying surface for the epoxy. The side supports are hole saw cut outs that I couldn't resist using. :eek: Their faying surface is limited so I'll back those up with a layer of fiberglass that extends beyond the area of the support. I've also been adding a fillet of thickened epoxy on the upper side where the panel rests to give it that extra touch of strength, plus it should look nicer when finished. I put a 45 deg chamfer on the bottom portions of the supports to get rid of unneeded material and to give a cleaner surface that is less likely to snag objects placed in the bilges. Once the glue is set, I'll take a sander and knock down the hard corners to further enhance these properties.
    IMG_0190.JPG

    The forward portion of the V. The epoxy bottles are assisting with an alignment issue that popped up during glue up.
    IMG_0191.JPG
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2015
  6. LP
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    Location: 26 36.9 N, 82 07.3 W

    LP Flying Boatman

    Where to put the water tanks?

    I was originally going to place the fresh water supply under the v-berth just forward of the cabin. I have a nice, area for an integral tank there. The draw backs are it's forward location and building a food quality storage area in the structure. Photos 1 and 2 in post 195 show this area nicely.

    I would like to have the capacity of at least 50 gallons of fresh water. The v-berth location is 30-40 gallons so it might be a little shy of desires and need a second tank elsewhere.

    My other option is to pull the tank(s) aft to centralize them in the boat. 50 gallons centered 2' from centerline presents a definite lateral trim problem. The solution being a second tank opposite the first. I can still fit a 25-35 gallon pre-made tank under the SB settee and the same or larger to port under the galley. The drawback are purchasing multiple pre-made tanks, higher system complexity and loss of settee storage. Less weigh in the ends of the boat and lateral trim control (vs a single large off center tank) are the positives.

    I have to make a decision as I'm about to lay the v-berth deck and I will need to either finish the v-berth tank or drill limbers and open up the area to air circulation.

    Thoughts and ideas and experience?

    This thread popped up and I am following it closely. It has me leaning towards multiple tanks.

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-building/weight-distribution-what-do-you-think-52832.html

    Thanks all.
     
  7. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Contamination is always a concern when cruising around. It's easy to screw the pooch if you have a single tank and not have any water (or fuel) that's reliable. This is why I prefer multiple tanks, as you can contaminate one, but contaminating both, is much less likely.
     
  8. LP
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    LP Flying Boatman

    I hadn't even considered the contamination possibility. I found a source for some bladder type tanks that are somewhat appealing. I can get a couple of 60 gallon bladders for less a couple of rigid 30's. Nothing says I have to fill them all of the way and they would lay into the bilges near midships where their weight would be most beneficial.
     
  9. LP
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    LP Flying Boatman

    Small update

    V-berth access panels progress.

    Access panels fitted with interlocking "nubs" on the hinged side and central stiffeners. The stiffeners are intended to direct panel loads to the ends of the panel where the strong corner supports are located.

    IMG_0207.JPG

    Epoxy barrier coating, fully shaped corner supports and glass patches on side support nubs.

    IMG_0208.JPG

    I'm not sure what to think about my "nubs". They're sort of funny little devices. They are a great application for a throw away item and sinfully easy to use. I stick them on a screwdriver with a couple of washers underneath and then hold them to my disk sander to shape them. The berth-deck mounted ones are chamfered so they will accept glass reinforcement readily while the panel mounted ones are more radiused so they are less deadly if tossed about the boat. A single screw in the pre-drilled hole and they are clamped in place while the glue cures. They seem to be plenty strong. I've put my full weight on similar panels in the starboard settee though I don't think I will be jumping up and down on them.
     
  10. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Seems like you've used more pieces, though slightly less weight than if you'd simply run a perimeter cleat around the edge, for the hatch to rest on. I often bevel the edges of hatches and the opening, so they can only go in one way and tend to self center when placed in the hole. This can help with decreasing the dimensions of the perimeter cleats too.
     
  11. LP
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    LP Flying Boatman

    More, but smaller and utilizes cut-offs that might otherwise get tossed. The perimeter cleat is certainly the cleaner, more proffessional look. Function first and if I have the energy, I'll try to throw some glamour into the mix. I'm trying to avoid this being a retirement project or a 10 year project like the powerboat became. Right now, it looks like I'm on track for a three year build, which is entirely acceptable. I get curious reactions from people when I mention the length, time wise, of my builds. Too much instant gratification in the world. :(
     
  12. LP
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    Location: 26 36.9 N, 82 07.3 W

    LP Flying Boatman

    Scottsdale, Monterey and Toluca. It was nice to get out of the cold for a few days. Hitting it again, now. I finally got the nerve up to cut the final access panel in the Vberth area. I was having trouble deciding whether to use the space for storage or a water tank. I'm fairly sure it will be dry storage, but I left the option open to use it as a water tank by running cleats around the perimeter of the access hole that could be used to seal the panel. I've tracked down some bladder style tanks that I can place under the galley to port and under the settee to starboard. I can get a 60 gallon bladder on either side, but don't necessarily plan to fill them to capacity. If I did though, it would be 1000 lbs additionally stability. Hmmmm...... Anyways, the access panel is cut and the cleats are curing in place. This pretty much has the major Vberth panel prepped for installation.

    Today was a stressful glue day. Lots of fiddleypieces to get clamped in place. The centerboard slot has been glaring it me for a while now, so progress was made on it today. Edge doublers were made and attached around most of the perimeter too provide stiffness and attachment material for the slot covers. Some additional material was added due to a slight modification that was made while the box was being assembled. This made for lots of clamps in a very slight area. Rather that trying to scape up the excess epoxy from around all of the clamps with a blade, a gloved finger was employed to manage the task on a more basic level. I typically try to stay further from the goo, but occasionally, you just have to dive in.
     

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  13. LP
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    Location: 26 36.9 N, 82 07.3 W

    LP Flying Boatman

    Five hours in the shed today. I laid 25' of fillet and tape. That's 5 feet per hour or one foot every 12 minutes. Ugh! The thing is, I was standing on my head with one hand tied behind my back with one eye closed. Felt like it anyways. I put in the major Vberth panel today and did all of the underside work, asking myself the whole time, "Do I really need to fillet and tape the underside of the Vberth?" Oh well it's done now and tomorrow will be the easier topside pieces.
     
  14. LP
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    Location: 26 36.9 N, 82 07.3 W

    LP Flying Boatman

    Bilge Water

    I worked the upper side of the Vberth today. Soooo easy compared to yesterdays efforts. I used 17 oz. biax today where I skimped and used easy to wet out, light weight cloth tapes yesterday. I went in to final coat the bilges in the Vberth area with high viscosity epoxy today and only coated the bottom sections. I wanted to coat the entire area, but will have to go back with thinner brushable stuff on the frames and such later.

    I fought with myself regarding bilge laminations for the longest period. On a traditional plank on frame build, placing anything on the planking (stowage) is a no-no. On a build like mine, I believe it is normal/OK to do so. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The debate was whether to add additional sheathing for additional protection and strength in the bilges. I finally decided to add a second lamination of 7 oz. cloth to the bilges. A strip 20" wide covers the area that I'm concerned with as seam tapes boost the laminations in some of the area. I have also pretty much decided to go with bladder type water tanks. One on each side of the boat to a maximum capacity (per) of 60 gallons. That's roughly 500 lbs that could be laying on(in?) the bilge. There is roughly 50 inches of frame (25 fore and 25 aft) which equates to 10 lbs per linear inch on the frames. I was thinking of doubling up the tapes fore and aft in the frame bay that would hold the tank and maybe lay some 18 oz. cloth to absorb the max anticipated loads. I think that this is adequate, if not overbuilt, but maybe somebody would express otherwise if they know better?

    I don't know that I need 160 gallons of water capacity, but it sure gives my righting curve a big increase. A quick shower at the end of a hot day is certainly a luxury worth considering with a little extra water on board.
     

  15. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Instead of a brush, which never seems to spread epoxy very well, try a sponge. Yep, steal a sponge from the kitchen, when she's not looking and try it. You can mash into areas, smear it around under stuff you can't easily get with a brush, etc.

    On your build, 'glassing the bilge will help with abrasion, though to gain any real strength and stiffness, you'll need a lot more fabric then a typical sheathing would need. Doubling over existing tape with this sheath is helpful.
     
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