Dynel sheathing?

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by SeaWitch1939, Oct 29, 2014.

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  1. SeaWitch1939

    SeaWitch1939 Previous Member

    Thx's all for the suggestions, The boat was purchased to move it up north, put her on the hard, and do a complete refurb over a 2+ yr period.
    Only goal for her as of now, getting her safe enough to power up the ICW in the spring, for the major work to begin.

    Dreamer? LMAO...Was i dreaming when I was cleaning her out below? Yep, it was nice!...h8tr
     

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  2. SeaWitch1939

    SeaWitch1939 Previous Member

    She has some bleeders. We are 100% aware of these, and once she hits the hard we will have all paint stripped, fasteners replaced as needed. At this point we expect the worse, and hope for a little better. Exposed planking that can be seen from the inside looks solid at this point. MAYBE the sheathing below the water line hasn't ruined the planks. Above water, less the bleeding, the planks are all in place and solid. Glass half full until I get her on the hard and know for sure. One things for sure, It's a huge amount of work, which i love, so not really work....Only a lazy hater would not understand that.

    She was re fit top to bottom in 2007, she also passed a marine survey in 2012 for Hagerty. Her electric systems work. She has all updated wiring work, etc.

    I also had a diver go look last week. Her bottom is solid. Her prop is fine, bottom paint is holding up. It's the inside wood that can't be seen, that's the mystery.
    Her bilge is dry.

    With the proper prep work, she is safe and solid enough to come up the ICW. Really no doubt in my mind about that, after spending hours in places
    most humans don't want to venture, inspecting her. LOL

    She is worth saving. I will! Regardless of what the couch potato, never do'... lazy people, have to say.
     

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  3. SeaWitch1939

    SeaWitch1939 Previous Member

    Thanks for your info. Appreciated. Every owner, except for the last, 2012 until me....took VERY good care of her. After doing extensive research on these owners, there is no doubt in my mind, the Dynel was not put over a bad hull in a saving move. No way....I inspected the bleeders some, it's the paint cracking, allowing water to hit the fastener heads. The wood around the areas is not even soft.

    This doesn't mean i'm assuming they are good. At this point i THINK the wood is okay. Everything i have read says, inspect the fastenings, if they are solid, leave them alone, treat the heads, and re paint. If fastenings were failing, i would see signs of plank movement, Not even one is showing stress. So again, the only goal is to get her north in the spring, after that, she will be stripped of all paint, and checked well. Her keel boats are solid as a rock also.

    Thanks again for the Info.
     
  4. SeaWitch1939

    SeaWitch1939 Previous Member

    Anyone want to suggest the Proper way to SEAL these bleeders up, ONLY FOR the transport up north? Or should i leave them open (Small cracks in paint only)

    The paint is Awl'....Another sign the hull was good when she was painted...who awl'grips a bad hull? Who's that dumb? Don't add up. The hull was in good shape when the waterline down was coverd, her top sides were good when the awl' was used. The paint is cracking in small areas, Like a few 1# hairline sections.

    Should i seal them, sand the paint off a small area around the crack, and use a cheap paint to cover and protect, or leave those little areas open?

    Thanks
     
  5. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Location: Duluth, Minnesota

    Steve W Senior Member

    First, congratulations on the purchase, i have always liked the look of those Anglemans. Is it just the area below the waterline that is sheathed or the topsides also? It is a bit of a mystery why anyone would sheath a carvel hull if it did not have issues but who knows, i hope you get lucky. A friend of mine bought a strip planked brewer design on ebay some years back that had more than one layer of dynel or similar that had some bleeders and we ground them back as a scarf and let them dry out while we did other work and then patched them with discs of dynel, they held up well, the wood was fine. This was a glued strip boat though that had been sheathed during construction but it had still developed a number of these small cracks.

    Steve.
     
  6. SeaWitch1939

    SeaWitch1939 Previous Member

    Thanks Steve,

    Only under the waterline is covered. The above waterline is not.

    Thanks for the tips about fixing. Dynel is a little to permanent for me for a quick fix. I just want to cover the areas until all her paint is stripped in the spring. I'm told removing that Dynel is a pita :D I might have to find out, if the planking behind the dynel is shot......
     
  7. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    When you get her hauled, grind off an area, preferably low and forward on the hull, so you can inspect the planking. You can always patch it up, with little pain. Other areas to explore would be any breached areas (naturally).

    The boat isn't going to die a horrible death in the time it takes to get her up nporth, so you can wait, but there's a good argument to grind open the various problem areas and suspected areas once she's out, so the drying process can start, before the trip into the great white north.
     
  8. SeaWitch1939

    SeaWitch1939 Previous Member


    Correction! The great blue south Par! AS in the South Pacific.

    Thanks again. I agree, some people (not here) assume she is a floating death trap, that will sink the minute she feels movement. Probable.... the ones that never have stepped on a sailboat, that sail a couch. LOL

    I like your idea of doing a couple of test grinds. I will use that for sure, and take a peek. If the planking is still solid under there, no reason at all to remove it. I will just spend extra time topside, making sure she remains dry below (Inside) to protect her. She is really dry now, and has not been out of the water (long term) in the last few years.

    Question

    She is a ketch rig. On board she has:
    A Genoa, a running Genoa (Bigger), a couple jibs, main and mizz sail....
    The two genoa's go all the way forward (up the bow pole). The jibs go forward and aft. #1 and #2 hank on.

    What i don't understand, her old photos show a 3rd boom forward, to hang the inside jib (#2) from. I don't see it on the boat? Is it possible the last owner removed it for what ever reason, or did it grow legs and run off? I really don't see any hardware to attach it anyplace??? I don't know enough about these rigs yet to know.

    Why would one remove the 3rd boom forward? Only thing I can guess, they sailed her with the two different size Genoa's most of the time, and removed the jib boom?

    She also has the hardware to run two poles winged out, bronze piece looks like to bells on a swivel. I would guess that is to run the two Genoa's out for down wind sailing?

    Lost help! Newb alert! LOL
     
  9. bpw
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: Cruising

    bpw Senior Member

    Boats don't "pass" survey. Have you had one done yet to find out what you bought?

    I suggest you tone down the attitude when asking advice about a subject you know very little about. You are getting free help from some very knowledgable people, many who have actually done major refits on boats.
     
  10. bpw
    Joined: May 2012
    Posts: 291
    Likes: 6, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 34
    Location: Cruising

    bpw Senior Member

    Also, if the screws are bleeding you have more than just a paint problem, that rust is getting through the dynel somehow.
     
  11. SeaWitch1939

    SeaWitch1939 Previous Member

    Funny...Please read below

    No survey needed, i expect the worse and i'm pleased with any good news....Worse case is she is a total tear down, rebuild, new planks ribs keel etc etc...don't really matter if you expect a total repair.....
     
  12. SeaWitch1939

    SeaWitch1939 Previous Member



    That would be true if you read... the bleeders are above the water line......No dynel above, so thanks for committing on something
    like this historic boat rehab, without even reading the thread. I'm looking for IMPORTANT QUESTION'S ANSWERED from experienced people
    so i can SAVE this boat. No time for commits from people that haven't read the thread. This is just to important....

    If you don't have any info. for me except telling me the boat is hosed, etc.. then please just move on. I'm the guy trying to save this floating
    antique. Before, she was on the way too a chopping block. I clearly stated in my first post (which you didn't read) that i understand the boat has issues, and my only goal is to get her on the hard to inspect her at this point. You telling me she might have fastener issues is like two days ago, no kidding. Par and a few others have already made it clear
    I need to get the boat on the hard and do a few small grinds to check the wood under the dynel.


    Every person that replied received a thank you for the info. I have attitude? re-read please, then stop trolling.

    Are you that guy, that want's to ruin a thread, trying to save a very classic wood boat, for your trolling pleasure? Really.....??

    If you keep it up I'll just move on off Boat Design I don't have time for this.

    I believe people here would like to see future threads with photos and vid's of the work I'm doing on Seawitch #1. If people care more about reading
    hate and silly'ness....please go ahead and post again. I will move on. I'm head deep in old boat for the next year+ No time for it.

    If there is anyone that would enjoy daily updates on the boat, photos, vids. etc etc..I will do that, as long as trolls are taken off my thread.
     
  13. SeaWitch1939

    SeaWitch1939 Previous Member

    So with that back on topic:

    Instead of me creating many new threads for the many questions I have, I will just post questions here. If people like, they can quote the question, and answer.
    All info. on topic, proper, will be appreciated.

    So here is a schedule for the next week's work.

    I will be sanding down the interior (every inch I can reach) Next. << Reason: She has been shut up too long, I won't be down there, many hours, as she sits now. I will use proper
    safety equipment when I'm sanding. (Old Mahogany) I will be wearing a 3m full face and tvex suit's.

    When I'm sanding away, I will be checking thru hulls etc. I'm going to start down low as i can go, and work up.

    Question: After the whole interior is sanded, should I keep it exposed & open with fans running
    to help dry it out a few weeks? Or, should I go ahead and use a water based acrylic paint too protect the exposed wood after a day or two of drying?

    I'm leaning towards leaving it exposed a few weeks including the bilge, to dry out, with fans running all over the interior. Unless people feel that is wrong?

    Thanks
     
  14. SeaWitch1939

    SeaWitch1939 Previous Member

    Not much to go on i know! :p

    QUESTION: Anyone have a clue what type of windvane steering system this is, You can see it sticking up above the dink' right side. Also, you can see some of it running down the stern. She still has the mount for it on the stern, but the rest is missing off her. I would like to one day rebuild it for her. There was a movie, Blue Water Odyssey
    she was the boat used for this documentary about one man sailing around the world with is family. Towards the end, it shows it working.

    The vane sticks up starboard, it connects to the pole (shaft) running down the stern, there is a stainless steel piece inside the cockpit that swivels right and left, the ropes are run through it, around some pulley's (both sides of boat) then connects to the helm via a wheel that's connected to the helm wheel. The ropes wrap around it so it can turn the wheel both ways.

    Photo 2 shows the helm, with wind steer rope on it.

    Photo 3 shows the stainless steel piece that allows the rope to come into the cockpit, and moves back and forth. It's connected through the hull, to the missing piece on the stern, that runs down into the water. Rudder connection or it's own backup rudder?
    All i got sorry, total newbi on this type of system.


    Photo's:
     

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  15. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
    Posts: 1,844
    Likes: 73, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 608
    Location: Duluth, Minnesota

    Steve W Senior Member

    I didn't realize you have SW"1, cool, well worth saving. I guess I didn't understand that the bleeders were all above the w/l, so, are there any breaches in the dynel? If you don't have cracking in the sheath in the plank seams that's a good sign, it would indicate that there is not a lot of movement. Typically when a carvel planked hull is sheathed with a thin skin of glass, dynel or anything really, the movement of the hull working in a seaway will crack the skin in places along the plank seams defeating the purpose. When you do sheath a hull and are able to pull it off it is very important to keep the bilge dry, so, no leaky decks, windows etc. If it is for some reason working on your boat i don't think i would remove it either.

    Steve.
     
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