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Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by dskira, May 19, 2010.

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  1. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    Don't be silly. Where did those animals (that store energy in their bodies) get their energy? From plants!

    Seeds, roots, leaves and stalks all store energy that can be consumed by humans at a later date. We do it all the time. Think Twinkies. (Bad, bad example) :D
     
  2. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Yeah, well those football players in the plane crash in the Andes in the 70's knew that vegetarianism wasn't going to work for them !
     
  3. myark
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    myark Senior Member


    "The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men." Leonardo da Vinci


    Ancient kayaker thank you for the wise and kind words.
    Humans are starting to evolve as predicted by Leonardo Da Vinci.

    There was the stone age, iron age, the industrial age and now we are going into the space age that may secure our children’s future on earth as human conscience is growing stronger and stronger which will be the savior of earth that host us all.


    A bit about bull fighting.

    How many bulls die?
    CAS International, a major anti-bullfighting group, estimates that around 250,000 bulls are killed and wounded each year in bullfights around the world. Vets describe the stress the animals endure before the fight and how they undergo prolonged weakening throughout the three movements (tercios) of the corrida—the tercio de varas (when they are lanced from a horse), de banderillas (when barbs are placed in their shoulders), and de muerte (when they are stabbed, sometimes clumsily) in the heart. Very rarely, bulls are pardoned on account of their bravery, and even more rarely, it is the bullfighters who die: Fifty-two matadors have been killed in the ring since 1700, the most recent being José “El Yiyo” Cubero, in 1985.
     
  4. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member



    The only way to bypass the ntrural animal energy storage cycle is with man made energy...refigeration, transport.
    Think of how much enegry it requires to grow a tomatoe in winter.

    think of how much energy and waste is required to transport off season vegatables half way around the world to feed silly vegatarians.

    Think of how much co2 is created .

    A vegitarian will die during the off season.

    The omnivore simply eats the animal, harvests its stored energy, once the herbavor can no longer forage.

    Omnivores rule. Its natural
     
  5. myark
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    myark Senior Member

    WOW so cool
     

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  6. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Grains and tubers are a far more effective way to store food energy than farm animals.
     
  7. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    I can wipe out your grain crop with pest or drought.

    Grain or tubers need to grow in a special environment. If this environment is not local you die

    Animals..domesticated..are resiliant and mobile.

    At the moment Im looking looking at a barren rocky island. Ther topsoil is so thin and the climate so dry that Nothing can grow. The island is famous for its sheep and cheese. The sheep forage on sparse blades of grass that spring to life during winter rains
     

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  8. myark
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    myark Senior Member

    Why going meatless saves the planet
    Going vegetarian is the easiest and quickest way to lower your carbon footprint, reduce pollution, and save energy and water. That's because meat production requires staggering Livestock production requires enormous amounts of energy. We put far more energy into animals per unit of food than we do for any plant crop. The main reason is that cattle consume 16 times as much grain as they produce as meat, so right there we have 16 times as much energy just to grow those crops, just so we can waste them on livestock.
    But the energy use doesn't end there. The livestock themselves take energy to process beyond the energy that goes into their feed. And then there's refrigeration, including during transport, necessary for meat but not for grains and beans. And then there's the transportation itself.
    Wasting energy isn't problematic just because there's less and less of it to go around. (We've already used more than half the oil that exists on the planet.) It's also a problem because burning fossil fuels contributes to global warming. And raising animals for food is the driving force. As the U.K.'s Independent put it:
    "Livestock are responsible for 18 per cent of the greenhouse gases that cause global warming, more than cars, planes and all other forms of transport put together."
    That figure comes from no less authority than the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations. (source)
     
  9. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    The huge greenhouses in Southern Spain are located next to nuclear power plants. Energy intensive ....you can see them from space.

    Im presently chomping into a tasty sausage and a chunk of cheese I bought in Italy 8 weeks ago.

    I struggle to keep fresh produce on the boat
     
  10. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    I agree, humans are by adaptation (mostly vegetarian) omnivores. And I agree that transporting tomatoes halfway around the world is hugely energy inefficient.

    However, as Mr Efficiency noted, tubers, grains, nuts, and seeds are relatively easily stored, and has been done for tens of thousands of years. I understand that 4,000 year-old viable dried corn has been found in Egyptian tombs. Even squirrels store acorns, and pikas store grass for later consumption.

    Furthermore, most flesh-eating humans also process and store meat, whether it was PNW Amerindians storing salmon, or Eskimos storing seal blubber, or Plains Amerindians storing bison. Your "tasty sausage and a chunk of cheese" is another example of how animal products need to be processed to be stored. Food sources are seldom constant and typically must be stored, or else you must migrate to keep up with your food sources (like many birds and herd animals do).
     
  11. myark
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    myark Senior Member

    Meat production requires so much water it's hard to comprehend.
    A pound of potatoes takes 99.6% less water to produce than a pound of beef, and 97% less than a pound of chicken.
    Earlier we said that going meatless makes a bigger impact than any other action you can take. Here's an example: If you gave up showering, you'd save less water than what's required to make a single pound of beef. Not beef for a whole year, just one miserable pound. A whole year's worth of showers takes about 5,200 gallons, but it takes 5,214 gallons to produce a single pound of beef.
     
  12. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    And..take no offense ...but you relative, the chimpanze is an omnivore.

    Its possible that I could genetically modify a human vegitarean , turn them into a sustainable filter feeder like a mussel then throw them into the sea...but it may cause ethical problems and clog waterways
     
  13. myark
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    myark Senior Member

    Raising animals for food requires lots more land than growing crops. That's because animals eat a lot more food than they provide as meat. It takes 16 pounds of grain to make one pound of beef.(293) That's 94% more land. And 94% more pesticides. All told, livestock eat 70% of all the grain we produce.(292) They're food factories in reverse.
    Grass-fed beef isn't a solution, because that requires even more land per unit of meat. And since the amount of land we have is fixed, what that really means is less meat. By going grass-fed, we'd have less meat, but still use just as much land. Animals are grain-fed because we can feed more animals that way.
    And make no mistake, there are a lot of them. More chickens are killed in the U.S. every year than there are people in the world (7.6 billion chickens vs. 6 billion people).(240) There are more than one billion head of cattle on the planet today, which weigh twice as much as the human population.(291) Thinking that all those cattle can easily be grass-fed is just a fantasy.
    The chart at right shows how many people can be supported by 2.5 acres of land, for various foods. I'm amazed at how many people complain that nobody can eat nothing but, say potatoes. The point isn't to suggest that anyone eat only one food, it's simply to show how animal farming wastes huge amounts of land. The point is that going meatless requires far, far less land and other resources than our normal eating habits do.
    The fact that we put far more grain into livestock than they return as meat is at the heart of why animal agriculture is so bad for the planet. If we have to grow far more grain than we have to, that means we're not just using far more land, we're also using far more water, far more energy, and far more pesticides. And that extra energy use means we're creating far more pollution and greenhouse gases.

    This is by no means the complete list of problems with raising animals for food. For example, we haven't even touched on the waterways ruined by animal runoff or rainforest deforestation. But really, how many more reasons do we need?
     
  14. myark
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    myark Senior Member

    Boring :rolleyes:
     

  15. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    I suspect that the reason the greenhouses are located next to power plants is to make use of the "free" energy that must otherwise be dumped in cooling towers or water bodies. This is actually a smart, energy-efficient move.
    I suspect you also struggle to keep fresh meat (not canned, frozen, salted, spiced, smoked or dried) on the boat
     
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