Seaswirl Tempo 17 sole, mounts, stringers?

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by ster1, Apr 30, 2013.

  1. ster1
    Joined: Aug 2012
    Posts: 61
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 16
    Location: colorado

    ster1 Junior Member

    The OMC hole is almost done

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/G5mXb81UsvEHWbF8R_HxkqHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    I think it looks ok

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/GyiGky_EinSxdpF9IlcMT6HCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    I used the backing board from the transom install to clamp up the hole. I layered in 20(ish) layers of CSM, enough so that the "plug" ended up slightly proud of the stern of the boat. Then clamped it with the board, screwed right to the transom. The plastic was just pulled tight, taped to the board, and used like peel ply would be. the final result is pretty smooth and flat, requiring minimal sanding. Some filling will be necessary; not alot.

    It's close :)

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/0sjsQSllQjCxDdDm1GNAmKHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink
     
  2. ster1
    Joined: Aug 2012
    Posts: 61
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 16
    Location: colorado

    ster1 Junior Member

    A heartfelt and sincere Thank You from me and my family to those who serve!

    I got some done on the transom today. I sanded the perimeter flush with the stern and found some dry CSM around the edges of the plug.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/BTip16zWQthufT_mj9mvB6HCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kLv9XCXnoOMWF38f6r0jOqHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    I took my dremel around the edge of the plug to get (most of) the dry CSM out. You can see where I took a few chunks out of the stern.
    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Dw4AlYnQZZ-zhM8EIRiav6HCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    I made up a filler of cut up CSM and polyester. I cut the CSM too long so when it was mixed up and catalyzed, it made a really difficult and messy material to work with. I was thinking it would be more like drywall compound but it was really more like thick gooey jelly. I was going to use a trowel to pack it in the gap and smooth it out, but I actually had to use my hands (had gloves). It was just tough to work with but I got it in there and it will fill the gap and be strong.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Ilo1BhvsZUYfkJ8-ZZmxMKHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    It's going to take a bit more sanding but once the perimeter of the plug is flush again, all I have to do then is screed a thin layer of polyester over the whole thing and it will be done. Most of the plug is slightly less than flush with the surface of the transom, so that worked out great. I guess resin shrinks a bit when it's cured. That worked out in my favor!

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/nPiPjrRx4glTgaicMZNaSKHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/9aavsTKMjkynp8LfK6yJ16HCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    Once the outside of the transom is done, I'm going to drill about 1/2 inch hole in the center to actually measure the thickness of the transom. I think I will have to route off maybe 1/16th of an inch from the inside which is still bare wood. I want at least one layer of CSM and 2 layers of 1708, which will be about 1/16 of an inch, and I bet I'm at 2 1/4 inches already. I don't know for sure; we will see.
     
  3. ster1
    Joined: Aug 2012
    Posts: 61
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 16
    Location: colorado

    ster1 Junior Member

    I had a challenging day today. Not only was my transom too thick overall by 1/16" without any csm or 1708 on the inside yet...

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/6CXB00faTpXDSPOvljtydqHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    But something happened while routing 3/16" off the inside, and the bit just kept going further into the wood.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/hCS1Q4uQZxF-hIrL6vXX1aHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    I used a syringe to fill in all the holes with polyester. I also wasn't getting the results I wanted using polyester to fair and finish the plug, so I used Bondo to finish it up. I hope that won't turn into a mistake. Time will tell.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/0I6jnr5nHylVViUu0Uqm4aHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/RZNI1MgZemqdVhPJ1DkzSqHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    I used some chopped CSM and resin to fill in the gouge left by the router. I'm very frustrated about this, but there is nothing I can do about it.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/azfyolcswMoImapYWaJRUqHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/fadbb89mDHtj55c-q3o7ZaHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    Tomorrow will be a better day :)
     
  4. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    You only talking about 1/16 if a inch !! don't even think about it ! the bolts to hold the outside to the inside can be longer and instead of 2 washes just use one if need be !! its not worth the hassle of routing off that small amount !! . I know you are into being precise bit this is a boat not a precision instrument !! :confused::D:p

    And if you are worried about thickness its only where the stern drive fits to the transom that needs to be reduced not all over !!!!you really are worrying over nothing at all !!
     
  5. ster1
    Joined: Aug 2012
    Posts: 61
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 16
    Location: colorado

    ster1 Junior Member

    Too late :). I took off a total of 3/16. Once I layer up some CSM and 1708 it will be just a hair under 2 1/4 inch thick. I was told by some others that the thickness is critical. This was definitely a learning experience!
     
  6. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    First I heard !! all we did was fit longer bolts on any thick transoms !!
    as I said its only associated to where the stern drive fits so not a biggie !!!.
     
  7. ster1
    Joined: Aug 2012
    Posts: 61
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 16
    Location: colorado

    ster1 Junior Member

    That's more or less what I thought. But I was convinced otherwise. Now it looks ridiculous. I'm going to move forward though, and just say it has character.
     
  8. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    After its covered with glass and been painted no one will ever know what you have done ! :)
     
  9. ster1
    Joined: Aug 2012
    Posts: 61
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 16
    Location: colorado

    ster1 Junior Member

    I had a partially good day and a partially bad day. I got 2 layers of CSM on the transom.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/zSN4wXqQskvR0opKWbw_GqHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    I think it looks pretty good

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LJCx1BVmMpW81rWjMSu7W6HCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/cX9xF-xiLuOhbpbLAt-SM6HCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/zdaSMLkJBfqSxggg_NjamKHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    The white parts are places I've already sanded and the pink is because I used a little bondo to finish filling in the gouge from the router yesterday. Everything is looking good until you look closely at the first layer of 1708

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/CFhfHV0PKUB0Ytw6WFXRh6HCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    Do you see them?

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/KugqsIjzBLqWbVkIQFtFAqHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    DELAMS! Several of em, Had to grind out and patch.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/q4RBRo0RiXgYv6CIB2Fjn6HCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/G8jpc9N1PFJS304FlwOx3qHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/x0t2dCfVSsG9L7TojtJ5yaHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    Frustrating!

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/RcPuj953TX2NU0nD_YpA8qHCuTx9N85ff0vacwuIzpg?feat=directlink

    I should not have tried to put it in in one piece, that transom is too big and too many compound curves. I should have used one piece for the face and 5 strips for the bevelled part. That would defeat some of the strength I'm sure but I wouldn't have these delams.

    I'm glad I cought it before the second layer of 1708. By the way, I'm 2 3/16" thick with one more layer to go. I'm sure I'll be witing spec as far as that goes.
     
  10. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Before you get carried away and if you not sure ask questions !!!

    you have created some problems :(
    Glassing always looks easy but !!! remember a few really basic rules !!
    always lay cloth onto a really wet layer of csm !!
    Always make sure the cloth is really wet all over everywhere specially edges !!
    use a paint roller to wet out and apply the resin !!
    any and all cloth needs time to completely wet all the bundles of stands of glass !!
    You must use a hard laminating roller about 18mm diameter with big fins and press firmly but never hard !!!
    It its not shiny with resin on the surface it hasn't got enough resin on it !!!

    First the glass is still way to dry in patch's !! You been using a brush I would say !! right ?? any job over 1 sq. foot use a paint roller to apply the resin !!! ,
    You need to be using a paint roller to wet out with and make sure the surface has a really good very wet coat of resin on it before the glass goes down !! then use the paint roller( 6inch wide or 4 inches wide ) to wet out with starting from the bottom working up wards always use lots resin and pushing it into the glass don't be skimping with the resin get it on quickly and make sure its all 100% totally wet and always shiny looking !!!then you need a hard laminating roller to roll the glass with !!! starting near the middle working towards the edges !!press firmly but not hard this pushes the glass down onto the surface and squash's the air out and makes a nice smooth job !!!if the surface is not shiny with resin its need more resin on it !!don't forget !!
    As the resin hardens it shrinks slightly and that's where you will find white marks appearing from Glass that doesn't have enough resin in it . To eliminate that problem is better to put a layer csm over the top and again done skimp on the resin!!! then the 1708 wont have all those horrible marks every where !!The glass round all the edges needs to come out onto the older glass a minimum of 50 mm and make sure its wet !! you look like you using a brush !! only use the brush for tight and hard to get to places and use more resin !! dry glass is doing nothing if there no resin in the glass its useless and a complete waste of time putting it on !! there are no prizes for skimping on resin !!! non at all !!
    When you finished doing all your hard rolling then the paint roller can be used to lightly roll over the wet surface a will mop up any surplus resin and wet out any dry places !!
    If you are not 100% sure of anything ask !! don't get yourself into strife and make mistakes .I been watching as you been going along and it appeared you were doing well until now !! :confused:
     
  11. ster1
    Joined: Aug 2012
    Posts: 61
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 16
    Location: colorado

    ster1 Junior Member

    I know. This kinda sucks. I was just fine until I started with that 1708, and I was using a roller and a brush, mostly the roller. I was using a regular soft roller, but I'll get a hard roller for the last layer. I'm actually now thinking I should grind the whole damn layer off and start over. I have plenty of materials to do it again. I have never used that particular material before, so I didn't know what to expect and I really should have practiced a bit on some scrap. The wierd thing is, I couldn't tell it was coming apart until it was already cured. The CSM bonded just fine and I didn't have any trouble with it. Probably because I've used it before. I used 32 ozs of resin on the 2 layers of CSM and that much on the one layer of 1708. Frustrating.
     
  12. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Ok lets just think about what the best way to make this better . if it just the 1708 that's the problem then if you can yes grind it off but try and leave the csm that covering the wood . its may even peel off if its not stick to well !!.
    When you to the stage of starting again post !!
    don't start till we see what you got and we'll talk you through it all the way !!
    ok??:p
     
  13. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Once its been ground sanded or prepared for re glassing pictures !!
    Don't do any glassing till your completely ready to go !!

    Can use 2 layers of csm under the 1708 instead of just one that way it will take up some of the hills and hollows and end up smooth when its rolled out with the hard roller and the final csm is laid all at the same time ,
     
  14. ster1
    Joined: Aug 2012
    Posts: 61
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 16
    Location: colorado

    ster1 Junior Member

    There already are 2 layers of CSM under there. They turned out real well. Just the one layer of 1708 that's no good unfortunately. I'm going to put it away for a week or so and get out of town with the family. I'll be back at it in a week!
     

  15. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    do you know why the csm was good and the 1708 wasn't ??

    Thicker heavier materials are always much easier to lay if they are on top of a layer of really wet csm glass !! lay the heavy glass then wet it out also and push that glass down onto and into the wet glass underneath , that way its being wet out from both sides not one !! always make sure there lots resin on the heavy glass as well ,, should be shiny wet!!, then use a hard roller to roll firmly but never hard !! glass roving needs time for the resin to soak and absorb into the bundles of fibres and completely saturate properly , that way it will be stronger and a much better job !!a light 300 gram csm over the top is a really good way to make sure the 1708 is 100% wet and rolled down with a hard roller where it should be !! :D
     
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