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ocean conditions are changing due to Rapid Global Climate Shift

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by Boston, Jan 10, 2011.

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hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

ImaginaryNumber said: ↑

Hoyt, sometimes I have difficulty telling whether you are just being a "Troll, apparently", or whether you're having real problems with dementia.

If it makes you feel any better, I quite agree with the Wikipedia article that the Aral Sea is drying up because of extensive irrigation, as is the Dead Sea, the Salton Sea, Lake Mead, Lake Chad, Mono Lake, and Tulare Lake (all located in socialist countries -- NOT!).

If you right-click on the image in my post, click on VIEW IMAGE (at least in the Firefox browser), and then look at the URL for that image, you will see that the photo came from the Florida Today website, not the Wikipedia website.

But where the photo came from is irrelevant (it probably originally came from NASA). As Troy also tried to explain to you, the point of Commander Hadfield's statement was to give an example of where human actions are causing major environmental degradation, and to suggest that we might want to consider whether our CO2 emissions will also cause serious undesirable environmental damage.
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If you agree why did you try to portray it as something it is not? Dementia? The pothead should not be calling the kettle-head black.

hoytedow, Mar 22, 2013

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rasorinc Senior Member

It has been a known fact since the 60s that the Aral sea was drying up due to Sovet water diversions which they were condemed for 5 decades ago. No climate change then. Hoyt you are dead on regarding this.

Wood Lasts Generations

rasorinc, Mar 22, 2013

#4217

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troy2000 Senior Member

hoytedow said: ↑

The photo of the dried up Aral Sea was posted by imaginary number and came straight from the Wikipedia article which says what caused it. It was meant to mislead by making one think climate change caused the drying. That is the lie and it was the poster's responsibility. It was deliberately deceptive.
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No, it wasn't the least bit deceptive. You're just so rabidly negative about climate change that you're either ignoring or can't understand the words written in plain English, that were posted along with the photo....

I think you owe ImaginaryNumber an apology for calling him a liar -- because to any person of normal intelligence without an agenda, the meaning is quite clear. It was posted as an example of how humans can screw things up, to get across the point that we shouldn't screw the pooch on climate change like the Soviets did with the Aral Sea.

Don't let the urgent displace the important...

troy2000, Mar 22, 2013

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hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

He portrayed something in a false way deliberately. I understand the words. Do you? Climate change propaganda is a tool for the manipulating of weak minds.

If I were to retract or apologize, then I would be making a statement that I was lying, which I wasn't.

hoytedow, Mar 22, 2013

#4219

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troy2000 Senior Member

hoytedow said: ↑

He portrayed something in a false way deliberately. I understand the words. Do you? Climate change propaganda is a tool for the manipulating of weak minds.
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Odd that it doesn't work on you, then...

Don't let the urgent displace the important...

troy2000, Mar 22, 2013

#4220

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ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

The Carbon Brief | Climate change experts support shale gas - but only with caveats

The UK should go ahead with fracking for shale gas in order to reduce emissions from the energy sector, according to media reports on a study by leading climate change experts. But it turns out not to be that simple. While the new report argues that the country could cut emissions by burning natural gas instead of coal, it warns significant amounts of UK shale gas may not commercially available until the late 2020s - and emissions will only come down with carbon capture technology.

The report from the Grantham Institute at LSE primarily analyses what a new 'dash for gas' could mean for UK energy prices and emissions. It asks whether a significant expansion of gas power could bring down greenhouse gas emissions and energy prices, and if exploiting UK shale gas specifically could increase the country's energy security…

The UK could reduce emissions from the power sector in the next few years by burning more gas and less coal, according to the report. This is because natural gas emits 57 per cent less carbon dioxide per kilowatt-hour (kWh) than coal does. But in the longer term, the report is critical of the government's plans to build new gas-fired power stations, arguing that it is inconsistent with the Committee on Climate Change's recommendation that the power sector be "virtually decarbonised" by 2030 - running the risk of 'locking' large amounts of gas into the energy system, jeopardising the UK's climate targets…
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ImaginaryNumber, Mar 23, 2013

#4221

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ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

Live Science | Greenland's Isolated Glaciers Melting Quickly

Melting from stand-alone glaciers in Greenland accounts for a whopping 10 percent of the total sea level rise worldwide from melting ice, which is more than expected, a new study finds.

These "peripheral" glaciers are isolated from the main ice sheet, flowing independently to the sea, and make up just 5 to 7 percent of Greenland's total ice coverage, researchers found. But they are rapidly losing ice, making up 20 percent of the island's total contribution to sea level rise. Because the glaciers cover a smaller area than the ice sheets, they are losing ice about 2.5 times faster than the giant ice sheet, the researchers calculated.

"The ice loss with respect to area is significantly higher than of the ice sheet," lead study author Tobias Bolch of the University of Zurich in Switzerland said in a statement. "This means that the local glaciers react faster with respect to climate change. This information will help to improve the predictions of the future contribution of Greenland's ice to sea-level rise…"

The study appeared in the March 13 issue of the journal Geophysical Research Letters.
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ImaginaryNumber, Mar 23, 2013

#4222

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ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

The Guardian | What zombie films tell us about climate change: there's no one happy ending

Dawn of the Dead, George A Romero's classic 1978 satire on consumer society, opens in a chaotic television studio. An unnamed expert and a TV presenter are sat across from each other, with panic unfolding all around them, and the expert is trying to convince the presenter that the dead are coming alive. The expert shouts accusingly to the presenter, "Do you believe the dead are returning to life and attacking the living?" To which the presenter replies, 'I'm not sure what to believe doctor. All we get is what you people tell us.' As the camera pans away to a TV studio being rapidly abandoned by the traumatised staff, we hear the exasperated expert cry out: 'What will it take to make you people see?'"

This scenario, with the frantic expert desperately trying to convince an incredulous audience of the desperateness of the situation, has many echoes with the increasingly alarmed tone present in much of the climate change discourse. Clive Hamilton noted a mood of "barely suppressed panic" amongst scientists in his 2010 book Requiem for a Species and the environmental journalist Ben Cubby recently commented on Twitter that, "Talking to well-informed climate scientists is starting to become a very depressing experience. We really are in trouble here." It seems fair to say there is, at the very least, a new sense of urgency, especially following the record Arctic ice melt in 2012. In this article I want to talk about this sense of panic, and how expert opinion shapes our understanding of climate change risk. I will attempt to show why powerful actors have promoted the claim of a two-degree dangerous limit, and the negative implications of the two-degree limit idea for democracy and social progress…

I can best explain this by returning to the zombies. Stories generally have three elements; a thesis (the existing order), the anti-thesis (the thing that threatens to disturb that order) and the synthesis (the new order that emerges after the threat has been dealt with). That is what gives a story its narrative arc and tension. The great thing about proper zombie films is that they play havoc with this structure. There is a thesis and an anti-thesis but no synthesis. The zombies are never destroyed and no new stable order emerges. And that, I fear, may be the truth of the climate change story.

There has been widespread acceptance of the two-degree story because stories are essential to our understanding of the world and most of the stories we tell are narratives designed to impose order on the world. According to the two-degree narrative, once upon a time there was an order called modernity, and all was well. Along came the nasty climate change monster to threaten this order. Luckily the monster did not become dangerous until it heated up by two degrees. This gave the people of the land the time to find a way to keep the monster safe by creating a green economy. The new green economy was very nice and everyone was happy. That story is simply a fairytale. But there is another story, blocked by the two-degree narrative, which does have not one single happy ending, but many millions of different endings, some happier than others.

In this story, there is no two-degree limit. There is a world of massive uncertainty, a chaotic non-linear range of climate change impacts which the people realise is beyond the scope of modernity to even understand, let alone respond to. All the knowledge, ways of being, cultures and technologies of the past and present are part of the millions of different stories that people in different parts of the world need to tell themselves to be able to find their own way through what is happening and what is yet to come. Who knows what the endings of these different stories will be, but they will be stories that people have made by themselves, rooted in the opportunities and constraints of their own lives, not fantasies foisted on them from afar to serve the interests of people they do not know and will never meet. Ironically, our best hope for reducing climate danger may lie in rejecting the very idea of a dangerous limit to climate change.
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ImaginaryNumber, Mar 23, 2013

#4223

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kvsgkvng Senior Member

Die Thread! Die!!!

kvsgkvng, Mar 23, 2013

#4224

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ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

Sydney Morning Herald | Planning, mitigation plans ignore climate change: experts

Planning laws and flood mitigation strategies in Australia don't take into account the future impacts of climate change, leaving communities at risk from greater and more frequent extreme weather, experts warn…

Dr Hussey said she was surprised and unsettled to discover none of the comprehensive flood reviews prepared by Queensland or Victorian governments examined the future impacts of climate change in any great detail, if at all. "In some respects you're already starting behind the eight ball," she told the forum.

China, The Netherlands and the US did acknowledge future climate change impact while developing and implementing flood mitigation plans. Subsequently, their strategies were much more effective than the "ad hoc" solutions, like levees, used in Australia, Dr Hussey said…
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ImaginaryNumber, Mar 24, 2013

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ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

De Smog Blog | Climate Denial Think Tank's Plans To Abolish Climate Change Departments in Australia

A LEADING Australian free-market think tank with close ties to the country's conservative Liberal Party has revealed its plan for climate change - abolish it…

The Institute of Public Affairs, a leading promoter of climate science denial and misrepresentation, has revealed its recommendations for the next government in a document outlining budget cuts. The plan was written by Alan Moran, director of the think tank's deregulation unit.

The document (pdf) made the pages of The Australian newspaper but the report did not mention the document's detailed plans to obliterate all climate change functions in the country's public sector. In one section the document outlines the think tank's recommendations for public sector departments. In delaing with the future of the "Climate Change and Energy Efficiency" department, Moran writes simply: "Abolish"…
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ImaginaryNumber, Mar 24, 2013

#4226

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ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

Scoop (NZ) | National ministers proved wrong on climate change

Climate denying National Government Ministers have been proven wrong with a climate scientist today confirming that more droughts are expected under climate change, the Green Party says.

This morning during an online media briefing Dr David Wratt, Chief Climate Scientist, NIWA, said he expected droughts to become more frequent as the century progressed: “The chances of having a drought are going to go up.”

He said under climate change, New Zealand weather would be more influenced by high-pressure belts from the sub tropics and ‘to some extent’ that was happening this summer. Dr Wratt said current one in 20-year droughts would double by the 2080s.

“This scientific evidence is proof that the National Government is denying the obvious,” Green Party climate change spokesperson Kennedy Graham said…
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ImaginaryNumber, Mar 24, 2013

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hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

troy2000 said: ↑

Odd that it doesn't work on you, then...
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You must be very disappointed.

hoytedow, Mar 24, 2013

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troy2000 Senior Member

hoytedow said: ↑

You must be very disappointed.
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Actually, I'm not a bit surprised that you have the strength to look the truth in the eye and say, "my mind is made up. Don't try to confuse me with facts..."

Don't let the urgent displace the important...

troy2000, Mar 24, 2013

#4229

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hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

troy2000 said: ↑

Actually, I'm not a bit surprised that you have the strength to look the truth in the eye and say, "my mind is made up. Don't try to confuse me with facts..."
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And I am not surprised that you would not recognize it if it ran over you with a glacier.

hoytedow, Mar 24, 2013

#4230

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