Trimaran with accomodation in the amas

I doubt if you will get a survey for it. First the cross beams are tied together with lashings. Comfort - Well -??? clientel - Backpackers - surfers - day scuba groups close inshore. Bottom end on market rates. If buying secondhand lashings probably will need redoing. Had experience with a Wharam some years ago although not on it. It got into a moderate blow and had to return to port and the lashings had to be re done and doubled. Almost did not make it.

 

So probably not a Wharram?

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

www.sailingcatamarans.com

 

The only problem with Richard is he gets catty.......

 

Definately a Wharram.


Go to Web site and view the crossbeam lashings.


http://www.google.co.nz/imgres?imgu...H4-MigK08ICoBg&sqi=2&ved=0CEIQ9QEwAw&dur=1016

 

Done properly the Wharram lashings have taken people around the world without problems. Go to the Wharram website, click on their link to Seapeople Magazine and download the back issues for extensive history of people who have actually used them. The Pahi 63 is about the least expensive large multihull design available to builders. The cabins offer private accommodations. Custom design work by anybody is going to cost more than stock plans and be more expensive to build. Plus the backpackers are apt to be nicer, more interesting people.

 

Trying not to be catty...

I said "not a Wharram" because the OP asked about a trimaran with accommodation in the outriggers, not about 60+ft open deck catamarans

Horstman trimarans are known as "roomarans" because of the space they have. Wharrams never have been, and never will be called roomarans, however long they are.

He also wants performance, especially to windward - unless I misunderstood his "perform good sailing close to the wind or hauling" comment. OK, maybe not a F31 speed or even a 50ft monohull speed, but I would think he'd want a 40ft monohull speed to windward? If he doesn't then clearly he doesn't want "good performance"

I have been on a number of Horstman trimarans and a 65ft version was being built at Derek Kelsall's yard while I was working there.

I have also sailed the Atlantic on a 53ft Wharram. I saw Wharram's own Pahi 63 prototype the day before it was launched and later sailed against it to windward. (I was sailing my 32ft Eclipse, which was a lot faster and pointed higher). I spent one New Years day on a Tiki 46

So I do have an idea of a Wharrams performance and the space inside a Horstman.

I suspect that a charter boat in most countries will require lifelines and pulpits and probably escape hatches etc. Rope lashed beams will be the least of the OP's legislative worries (personally I find their squeaking disconcerting)

Maybe its time to restart this thread with a different title

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

www.sailingcatamarans.com

 

I have transgressed, Heretic that I appear to be I let myself think of a llong inexpensive cat when I saw the lack of budget. Cost wise how did your Eclipse compare to the Pahi 63? In speed to windward slower but no slouch off the wind carrying more people with more on deck elbow room.

Clearly what this poster needs is a big tri, on this thread anyway. For a stock plan how about a modification of Norm Cross' racer Crusader ? Over 50' long with big enough amas to give harbor berths and a large main hull that can have some wing added plus well above "ordinary performance on all points of sail.

 

Biggest charter cats not in the million$ are the DuFour Nautitechs- 82' and 98' but at $600k + ...

http://www.windward-islands.net/crewed/yacht-us.php?ID=98

 

I saw Crusader sailing a few years ago, it wasn't as fast as I would have expected.

The Pahi 63 is a scaled up Pahi 35. I helped build the prototype Pahi 35 in foam sandwich and later cruised and raced it extensively.

Costs are always hard to predict, but this is what I say on the FAQ's page of my website

"But before I do that it's worth pointing out that building a 10m, 3T boat with 50 sq m of sail (or 33' x 6000lbs x 500 sq ft) will probably cost the same whatever designer is chosen. That's because sail and rig costs are independent of design, as are glass, resin and plywood as they are sold by weight or area. So too are cookers, anchors, lights etc etc.

You can make a similar sort of comparison with cars. The steel in a Skoda costs the same as in a Mercedes, but the latter is ten times the price of the former! And the difference in price goes into the builders pocket and into the general public perception of "I want one of those!" So, don't be misled by those who say "my boats are cheap to build". Having said that, it is certainly possible to find designs that are expensive to build. Ones that need special one-off fittings, or use exotic materials for example."

A charter boat is used as a business, so I couldn't advise anyone to build a specific design until a proper cost analysis had been done. For sure a big boat can charge extra for each passenger, but equally the initial and running costs will be higher and you will find it harder to fill the boat if you need 9 couples (few singles will want to share a cabin on any luxury charter) to make a profit on a trip

Chartered or not, a 60+ft multihull by any designer is going to need a USD500,000 budget and of course annual running costs are typically 10% of the initial cost

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

www.sailingcatamarans.com

 

Sails and hardware are about 1/3 the costs of a build. This is where a Wharram saves. Basic mast- no spar extrusion. Simple hardware- much can be owner built. Basic yet efficient sails- don't even need sail track. etc.....Compare this to spar extrusions, more complicated hardware for the Battened laminate sails etc...How much of the 1/3 difference is saved depends upon many things but certainly 1/6 is easily attainable.

The Pahi's more basic interior construction-flexispace, saves build time and costs. Here it is very easy to save more than 1/6th over a boat with standard cabinetry and finish. When added up you have a boat that cost 2/3 of something of comparable size.

It is true that you get what you pay for, for decades the Wharram's have been getting people sailing affordably by designing boats where you don't have to build what you don't need. By positioning your charter around a sustainable Earth concept for example, you could attract some of the Mercedes crowd if you want by giving them a "natural'' connection to the sea.

Each approach has a market, selecting one that you will enjoy and can budget requires careful thought. No matter the clientel it is hard work, not a romantic life of ease. Personally I think the whole earth crowd would be less stressful than the bunch checking the starch in the napkins.

 

Thank you very much,
this is a great forum, I found a lot of information and very precious suggestions,
still I see that information helps up to a certain point,
then to decide for a catamaran or a trimaran it will be needed a sailing test,
because the layout and the accommodations are somehow easy to get via picture,
but other factor like seaworthiness, comfort and also performance there is no other
way to compare than to have a direct experience.
I started asking for a minimum tri lenght with accommodations in the amas and
then we ended up in many other small subjects,
thank you for your patience and understanding,
it's a work in progress and from one question another question arise and so on.
I want to figure out the best vessel for us and to know how much €$ we need to
invest.

 

There is an interesting 50' Horstman Tri for sale in California. It has berths on the wing deck with a companionway in the amas. I'm posting it to show how much bulk you need at this "smaller" length and still don't quite get what you want.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/boa/3488365385.html

 

Interesting and the price is also interesting.
When I see the pics the spaciousness looks really impressive,
The ad says:

And I wonder how to interpret, how to translate into numbers this:

but 177k $ looks cheap

ciao
thank you
eiasu

 

In Ed,s Trimaran sailing book he states that the Tri-Star 40 can on average sail at a speed - length ratio of 1.69 . I would think that you could use that number + or - for most of Ed,s designs other than the XR series. Rick

 

The "she sails beautifully and fast" is probably for downwind sailing compared to most monos. I'm not so sure she would be a good upwind performer. Maybe.