wiggle drive propulsion application

Discussion in 'Propulsion' started by SudorracMechEng, May 7, 2012.

  1. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    Hey Swash, I used your video as an example over on my 35' cat concept thread. I know you guys are kinda having it out over who's invented what, just trying to keep it honest and let you know whats up as it turns up. My next big plan is to build a scale model of my cat design and try different forms of propulsion out. steam, diesel, fins, wings, kites, and see where it leads. No clue but its an organic process so I'll just let it go where it leads.

    Cheers and great idea guys.

     
  2. kjell
    Joined: Aug 2005
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    Location: mallorca

    kjell Senior Member

    I have been experimenting with different Tail Drive on my model cat.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    A dolphin is 6 feet of muscle. top and bottom of the dolphin uses these to counteract the thrust of the fin up and down.

    All you will get is the boat doing same, to every motion is an equall and opposite.

    Never mind im sure it would be quite amuzing.
     
  4. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    yup, My bet is on the two vertical fins acting opposite one another is the better arrangement, I'd also put money on what Swashbuckler said. 100 ways to do it and most of them all wrong. But if it could be done efficiently, then the blades are waaaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper than a prop any day. Hell you could probably knock one out by hand in an afternoon. As apposed to molding casting and balancing a 22" 3 blade prop.

    Think of it as a test bed Frosty. Test beds are made to screw things up on ;-)
     
  5. swashdrive
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: SEQ, Aus.

    swashdrive Junior Member

    G'day guys

    I have taken a couple of days to read stuff & think, actually been thinking hard on how to do this for a few yrs now!
    I have had in the past, 2 patents on this mechanism already, so yeah the prior art makes any future patents very limiting, ( which have lapsed anyway). Nor do i have the funds or time to do that whole police patent thing only to have someone steal it and take all the glory anyway !
    Kjell is absolutely correct in saying
    To be honest with myself, this Invention is way to significant to everyone to be kept secret in my cupboard for another 20 yrs !
    If somehow we can get Mr Kjell to promise he will not run off and relabel or try and patent this invention his own, everyone be honourable to the cause and name the father invention a SWASHDRIVE,
    this devise is clearly more advanced than KJELL wiggle devise, the video proves that !!!
    Then i will strongly consider disclosing my discoveries of the Swashplate phenomenon. What i consider natures gift to mankind !

    I'm not saying Kjell is wrong, infact his discoveries are down the same road i've travelled and given time he may workout what i already know !



    Maybe this lil' cat setup may work !

    Regards
    Craig Wyeth
    Swashdrive™
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    nice cat, you build that thing and you'll have all there attention

    My plan is for a slower model. Basically a house cat. ;-)
     
  7. RayThackeray
    Joined: Apr 2011
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    Location: Alameda, CA, USA

    RayThackeray Senior Member

    Mispelled is mispelt spelt wrong.


     
  8. kjell
    Joined: Aug 2005
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    Location: mallorca

    kjell Senior Member

    Hi Craig.
    I am glad that you are back. Your Cat looks beautiful. This cat, equipped with your Swashdrive can be very good. If I can help you to understand the Kjell-Effect, You are welcome. To get the maximum efficiency out of your drive it is important to under stand how the thrust is produced. I don’t thing it is necessary to fight between us. The Swashdrive and the Kjell-Wiggle Drive, works with the same mechanical background. Mine is less sophisticated than yours. I wish you good luck with your invention.
    Regards
    Kjell Dahlberg
     
  9. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    I keep envisioning a total of 4 fins, 2 on each side, working both independently or in tandem to both drive and steer.
     
  10. SudorracMechEng
    Joined: Mar 2012
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    Location: australia

    SudorracMechEng Junior Member

    Swashdrive, glad you are on board ! Looking forward to seeing the detail of how you achieved this.

    :)

    Boston, and KJELL - Thanks for keeping your comments in a constructive manner! Looking forward to getting perfected.
     
  11. swashdrive
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: SEQ, Aus.

    swashdrive Junior Member

    Gday

    The pic of the cat has a swashdrive unit already mounted on it in the pic, it Had good straight line speed but just wouldn't turn as well and lost speed to fast compared to the jetsprint hull.
    I do have plans to build a bigger drive for it like you mentioned Boston... 4 fins with the 2nd set timed 90 deg advanced to the first. I'm thinking more grip and also make a more constant motor load !
    Heah Kjell thanks for the offer old mate, but if i was you i would drop your claim for this "kjell effect"... isn't there already laws to cover this in aerodynamics, hydrodynamics and possibly even thermodynamics ! I think i already know how it produces thrust, i didn't just stumble upon it, but thanks for your offer.

    Regards
    Craig
    Swashdrive™
     
  12. kjell
    Joined: Aug 2005
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    Location: mallorca

    kjell Senior Member

    Hi Craig.

    If you don’t like to call it “Kjell-Effect” many like to call it “Fan-Effect” or “Tail-Effect” but all is the same. This “Effect” doesn’t exist in aeroplanes, so normal aerodynamics has no formulas to explain it. Insects, Bats, birds and all swimmers are taking advance if they are using this “effect” the right way. I would like to know, how do you think the fins are converted the flapping movement into thrust.
    Your “SwashDrive” looks very impressive. I can se that you have been many hours to build it.
    Kjell
     
  13. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    You guys are achieving a similar motion, using different mechanics, I suspect one being fairly smooth and the other producing tons of vibration.

    a swashplate is not flat. its got a serpentine to it, and used roller bearings, most likely far more efficient then a flat plate with a acentric axle which in turn moves through a large bearing of some kind. Seems like it would have larger moving pieces, although they might act like a flywheel and smooth it out some.

    Swashbuckler provided some info, but not quite enough to figure out how much thrust his system provided pr/watt. It would be interesting to set both systems up in a static thrust situation and see which one is the more efficient. Just off the top of my head I'd guess Swashbuckler but there's just no telling from whats provided so far.

    I was just reading up on the efficiency of drive systems, .65 for shaft systems .55 for stern and jet drives. Would love to know how that compares to these things.

    I'm not sure Agent K has a clear grip on what a swashplate looks like. But by refering to an acentric axle as a "wiggle" plate might be kinda confusing people.

    this flicker shows a axial vectored engine using a swashplate.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uClky1QX0Eg

    and this thing uses a acentric axle

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfR8HTGdXgs&feature=related
     
  14. swashdrive
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: SEQ, Aus.

    swashdrive Junior Member

    I tooled a 1/4 scale mixed flow jet for an RC Jetsprint
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EZ1Nb5J-hY

    I sold a few to Wolfston marine, which does testing with all the flow tanks etc in the University of Southhampton, England.
    I received and efficiency report back stating the following ;
    At best a prop is 0.28% and all jets they've tested unto 0.35% efficiency
    My scale jet they had calculate 0.36 the best so far, so i suppose in this scale efficieny can be quite good. But 0.65 i have never herd of a prop being that efficient ! maybe wrong but that is what i have been led to believe !
    You may have noticed i removed my claim on efficiency % on the youtube vid, i don't really want to spend all my time little as it may be defending this claim, i can wait for others to replicate this devise and do there own calc's and prove or disprove its efficiency !

    I'm sorry old mate, that also is not a swashplate, its a cam plate with 2 roller followers, there is more than 1 stroke per the revolution of the main shaft, sure it may be able to mimic the constant velocity of the swashplate, but i hate to think what would happen if one follower broke !


    regards
    Craig
    Swashdrive™
     

  15. swashdrive
    Joined: May 2012
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    Location: SEQ, Aus.

    swashdrive Junior Member

    removed


    regards
    Craig
    Swashdrive™
     
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