the boatbuilding journey

the only problem is how do i convert a boiler to run on pellets?..probably is easy enough ...but ill have to look into it..pellets do make sense on a wieght and space issue--i have been wondering about that...do you have a link to that ton of eco-logs for 350.00?

 

A quick thought for tug:

If you end up going diesel, you could save a fortune by running a used, regular land type diesel engine with dry stack exhaust. You have a metal boat and want it to be industrial, so it's a perfect fit.

You can get one for $1000 if you buy a rusted out VW diesel or old tractor.

 

Thanks catbuilder- I was looking through the classifieds on ebay and a canadian site called kijiji i can get some good running diesels for under 1000 i.e. there is a DD 6v-53 for sale for 750.00 i know the guy and he is reputable too..problem is with that --mega fuel consumption --but if i go hydraulics ill take that advice...I knw this is probably a retarded idea or even dumb question but i keep wondering if in the next few years- the "what if " our fuel goes up to like ten bucks a gallon or more?..its quite possible..this is really the big reason i like steam but it would be soooo nice to have diesel and push a button and go ..and run without all that hopping about and feeding the boiler..sigh..i think -it was someone on here teddydiver i think...who said that you just gotta look at the next step and focus on that ..i need some planning but i guess ill know when it comes time to do my keel/s what going into my boat --thats around late summer that decision will have to be made...that set-up would be ideal for sure!! a cheap truck engine ..running the system..like a cummins truck engine 7.3 litre. used..

how far along on the hulls are you??..i saw yesterday a 31 ft cat set up for electric propulsion - 7 knots and 5 hours of run time on a charge..using two, 2 hp torqueedo engines...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udBoNSPZYBo you might like this --

maybe a little more power for your hull would be needed but --might be worth looking at...

 

Teddydiver-- do you have any pics--would love to see her getting built..

thx
Doug

 

You know, I have the same fear about fuel prices, which is why I was trying to go all solar for my air conditioning system.

Every time I think I have things figured out, I worry about something new with these systems.

 

Catbuilder...yea i know i think many of us fear that and we such a reliance on oil...

The good news is- you have a sail...and cats are fast...sailboats dont really need to worry too much if that happens since they can use thier sails...the wind is always free...
i think there are many people who dont even use an engine when they cruise.

i always considered sailing the closest thing to free energy there is...

 

Its strange how perceptions have shifted my mother (in her 70's now) had no refrigeration as a child the butter was kept cool enough to not melt in a Coolgardie safe and they salted their meat and hung carcasses in the cool store (a small room dug out underground). Yachting in the past was similar in its basic accoutrements only of recent years has apartment living become the expectation of passengers and crew. Basic living If you can put up with it can save a lot of complexity and weight.

 

this is very true-- i know the cold storage you talk of...my mother-now in her 70's also grew up in a very rural area near Georgian bay. There were few of todays comforts. I remember even when we shared the same phone lines--as a mishevious kid i would just pick up the phone and listen in to what the nieghbours were saying...

and im thinking --wow we've actually lost our connection to the water because we try so hard to take land with us when we sail..i,e so many luxuries...(no offense to catbuilder-since this is the reality of modern world, i can completely understand with the idea of a charter yacht). sailing -even though im no expert- i still love the purity of it. if i was going to build a sailboat it would be a cat. and it would be fast but without any real luxuries so that i could experience that closeness to water. i would have too-built a sailboat -but it wasnt practical for me to sail georgian bay--too many hazards.
My primary goal in my build- to have a water based living situation for retirment and the cat plans i have just didnt provide that. but having lived on water for quite a number of years now- i could never go back to living on land for long periods...ill be back in the water this summer to live...on a houseboat...

this is why i like tugs-even though they are still modern contrivances--this style i am building is 40 years or more older in design. they have the low free board which directly connects the boat to the water in mho...

i worked on tugs and on lakers for a short time--the lakers made me feel disconnected due to thier massive size. the small boats made me feel more in tune with my environment...steam also has some appeal to it that way...i dont know why.

i can only see fuel prices rising...it needs to be back to basics for many of us--i sold my truck this last summer because fuel was just too expensive to run ..i know of many others that are doing the same thing...

 

By the way Catbuilder I understand the difficulty you face in appeasing customer demands for luxury aboard your boat. Sadly basic living wont cut it in your application. Part of the reason I opted to build a performance trimaran to Kurt's design is there is so much less fitout in a trimaran of the same length, true you have to build more hulls but the actual surface areas that require fairing are probably similar or less on a low displacement trimaran and I wont fair the inside of the floats either just smooth them enough to make them viable storage for light items. The interior of my boat I intend to be basic but neatly fitted out and as space efficient as possible. After helping other members of the club with their catamaran fitouts I've come to appreciate the large amount of time that goes into fitting out the area that a cat offers to a good standard.

 

Definitely. This thread and thinking about oil dependence has got me starting over on the systems once again!

But I think I have come up with a good approach:

Design all systems to be simple like you are talking about (of course we need refrigeration and a freezer for work), but otherwise, use little to no power when guests are not aboard. That can be done from solar alone.

Then, when guests are aboard, fire up the generator to keep up with their demand for HVAC and increased power consumption.

I'm going to start again, with that philosophy in mind...

Ah, and Corley - to your last post: A simpe trimaran is the boat we would have built (or frankly just bought) if it were just the wife and I. That's the way to go. All the advantages of a multihull, the fastest speed of a multihull and like you said, plenty of other advantages. I couldn't agree more. That's why I am having such a hard time. Our wants and needs are in direct opposition to the wants and needs of someone on vacation. I actually enjoy jugging my water. Keeps me in shape. However, the quantity required for 6 passengers to take daily showers in the Exumas (Bahamas) would cost a fortune (they charge for water) and would take half the day to move for them. So, I'm stuck putting in a watermaker. The list is endless to support a land type lifestyle which we all know isn't the right way to go on a boat.

Great thread.

 

hey Tug: I went to Can Tire website,took the price and multiplied it. Maybe you could buy them cheaper in bulk.
I googled "eco log maker" and theres many in Canada at about 8600 BTU per pound which is par with pellets.

All steam sounds great but expensive...if it were me I'd buy a good used Cummins 4B or 4BT and just go with that-new ones last 20,000 hours in gensets.
That's enough to go around the world 3 or 4 times.

Or if you could find an old Sabb engine with the control pitch prop it would be perfect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQkCDLMHCiQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99GfAzGE9yc&feature=related

 

I suspect i could get a deal through one of thier distributers...350.00worth of this stuff -probably run about 8 hours on 200 lbs of this quite easily at 8500 btu's per lb.

would get me pretty far...but would be good to have some cheap backup wood too onboard...
the steam is actually much less expensiove than a new or good reconditioned diesel..there still isnt any firm decision as of yet--the forum helps me sort out these types of decisions.
last year i bought an old volvo md2 -paid 500.00 for it..the guy lied through his teeth about its condition and i trusted him enough that when i picked up the engine i didnt start it--(big mistake!) i got it home and it ran alright--with two fully blown headgaskets!! this was very similar to the sabb motors which are really torquey engines. this was about 16-18 hp at around 1800 rpms.

i dont know the hp ratings but they r strong- the old listers are even better in mho. again two issues i might have is- 1. parts availability
2. price.
ok and 3. where to even get one now...
i do like the idea of a hydraulic system with a 7.3 litre diesel or something like that. even if i go with a single screw 18 hp steam engine -tis only about 2600.00 u.s. brand new! and it will last forever. the boiler is about 900.00-1000.00 u.s. to make. using my existing 1/2 inch pressure pipe.

good lord man! a cpp!?...are you tring to make me go broke?..(laugh) i love them but just not within my realm of finances..there is the sailboat guy who has just about every concieveable tool you cna dream up- you can see his very informative vids on youtube (building a 74 ft'er sailboat in origami no less)who bought a hundested cpp from a guy in vancouver island.
he has rebuilt it...its very complex to me...and goes against my k.i.s.s. principle. true they are more effective than a standard setup...but i just dont need the hassles..they also break down easily too...or so i learned when studying navigation in college.
here is a link to his rebuild of it..he even cast his own bronze parts..too much for me!..but kudos to him...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU02gZOPIIE

 

That sounds like a very wise approach to me and agree a watermaker is the best and lightest solution for a multihull. A generator that kicks in at times of peak usage and a moderate battery capacity is the easiest to implement solution and wont eat too much space and payload, solar will probably address most of your power needs when operating without passengers.

 

Some older pictures and sketches in the gallery. Got to update some day soon..

 

TuG:

The Hundesteds,Sabbs,and other Nordid diesels came as a package from engine to prop. The entire Nordic fishing fleet has been using them since the 1930's....

You can buy new Lister clones out of India,up to 25 hp and they are very heavy....the problem is there are many makers-some are very good,some are bad. I have one that's been used for power in a cabin,has run for years trouble free.
You tube: "listeroid".

Most guys can have aboat or ten in the backyard and its a beautiful thing..wives,not so much.
I drive around and explore new areas and have an eagle eye...4 years ago i spotted a rusty uncompleted steel sailboat with a very faded for sale sign in a side yard.
They guy wanted to give it to me-his wife was really on him- but I gave him $200 as it had a new unused Sabb all Wd-40's up and wrapped in plastic,but unsure if it was still good.
My friends flat bed took it, I took the drive out and it ended up being perfect and looking like new.Sold the boat for $1000,and gave that to the old guy as he looked like he could use it.Sorry you can't have the engine,it's going to be the base of a table.

Just to show what you can get by looking about.

Put an ad on Craigslist and Kijiji every friday " wanted old project boat with diesel engine" and advertise in the local free ad paper as most of the older folks don't use the internet- you never know what'll turn up.

Go on google maps,satellite view or google earth or Bing maps in your area to peer into people's back yards for boats.
I found a guy's split window VW van collection by doing this.