Somali pirates

The war in Vietnam was un-winnable from the beginning.

The problem wasn't poor morale at home; the problem was unshakable determination on the part of the Vietnamese. After the years they spent throwing the French out, there was no way they were going to let us get away with splitting the country in two, and claiming the corrupt, incompetent leaders we installed in the south were legitimate.

Any victory we achieved would have been a temporary one, and inevitably the pot would have boiled over again. The Vietnamese were fighting at home to throw the foreigners out, while we were sending soldiers far away from home, to die in a land a lot of them had barely heard of. Our so-called allies spent as much time backstabbing each other and us as they did fighting the enemy, while the common soldiers were poorly trained and unmotivated; the ARVN desertion rate was ridiculously high. Does any of that sound familiar?

And by the way, I'm not some leftist professor -- nor was I ever brainwashed by one. I'm a combat veteran, and my Vietnam campaign ribbon has two stars on it.

 

Battle of Waterloo:

The French had 72,000 troops -- most of them experienced veterans, and none of them conscripts. They suffered 25,000 killed or wounded, 8000 captured and 15,000 missing.

The Anglo-Allies and the Prussians had 118,000 troops; many of them poor quality. Their losses were 19,300 killed or wounded, and 4700 missing.

Apparently no one ever explained the gentleman's agreement to either side; they didn't realize they were supposed to quit as soon as their losses reached 10%.

 

Got 2 stars also. 68-69. Twin 50 gunner on PCF

 

That's total crap. We fought to lose thanks to nut jobs running loose in this country. War was lost in the halls of congress. NVA was 2 weeks from throwing in the towel when we beat them to the punch.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_general_giap.htm

Giap may not have said it but that is still true. They were whipped. Then we pulled the rug out from under the S Vietnamese. We are developing a pattern of that so soon we will have no allies who can trust us.

How do you feel about John Kerry and Jane Fonda stabbing you in the back while you were fighting?

 

It was all about oil. Gulf of Tonkin has 1000s of lil islands. Bunch different countries claimed them or one. territorial sea for drilling rights. some islands were so small the stilt build structure housing the "occupiers" was bigger than the island

 

Hoyte:

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_general_giap.htm

I would be interested in a bit on this. I am rusty on the period....
Another of interest- the Korean conflict.
We got our asses handed back to us & we tried there I suppose.

 

Sometimes we should just let the rest of the world go to Hell, huh?

 

No, I wouldn't say that.

 

Well, why not?

 

I liked "Hanoi Jane" in Barbarella and Cat Ballou, but those were before she went to Hanoi.
Did she make any movies after? I didn't see her in anything!
Not sure for positive, but I think, when she she shot off her mouth and said she'd like to shoot down an american plane, she shot herself in the foot.

 

She did. I didn't watch them.

 

me neither, didn't even notice she was in anything. must of mentally blocked her out

 

I repeat: we would never have been victorious in the traditional sense in Vietnam. Even if we had put out the fire and forced them to stand down for a while, things would have flared up again anywhere and anytime we turned our backs.

If you think those guys were two weeks from surrendering, turning in their guns and the machetes they used for making punji sticks, and becoming meek little lambs (or potbellied pigs) under the American thumb for the rest of their lives, you've been reading fairy tales and propaganda.

John Kerry didn't stab me in the back while I was fighting. Despite the smear job that was done on him purely for political reasons, the truth is that Kerry volunteered for combat duty -- and performed his duty bravely and well. He still has shrapnel in his left thigh, because the doctors decided it was safer to leave it than to make a hole big enough to remove it. Can you say that about Perry, Bush, Gingrich or any of the other GOP chicken hawks -- who are big fire-eaters, as long as someone else is doing the fighting and dying?

When he got back, Kerry did his best to stop his fellow servicemen from continuing to die pointlessly while fighting a senseless war with no real objectives. I'd have to be a strange one indeed to call someone who was trying to save my life a backstabber....

Jane Fonda was (and is) an idiot, obviously. But I don't remember even hearing about the nonsense she got involved in until after I was out of uniform.

 

I figure Kerry saw an opportunity and took it. As you said, he completed his military service with honor. When he returned home, the political climate was veterans are "baby killers". After some other war, a political aspirant could make hay from their military record. Not in the US in late 60's and 70's. Kerry sang a for then popular refrain and got elected.
I don't think I'd vote for him. I don't much respect those who blow with the wind. But then again, you have to adapt to changing times or you won't survive. The Amerindian part of me knows this only too well.

 

Well, I don't claim to be some sort of hero. I'm not going to sit down with you and start trying to match you scar for scar, decoration for decoration, and war story for war story; I'd probably lose.

My point was that left-wing professors weren't (and aren't) the only ones who thought we had no business getting suckered into Vietnam, in a useless attempt to cover France's backside after they got it kicked royally by the locals.

We had no urgent national interests at stake in the area. We'd have been better off letting Vietnam consolidate under the rule of Ho Chi Minh after he kicked the French out. Sending him trade agreements along with some industrial and agricultural expertise would've done us (and the average Vietnamese) more good than bullets and bombs.... and it would've been a lot cheaper, both in dollars and lives.