Some one has to start it, Americas default.

Sure,,,Germany is export driven and the Euro has been very good for German exports. Germany certainly must find a way, at great financial cost to German taxpayers , to unravel the Greek situation. Then Germany must find a way to support other German export consumer countries like Spain before their finances go over the edge. The situation is critical.

 

I really hope it works out. I seem to have citizenship to both struggling parts of the world.

 

Micheal- some weeks back a analyst threw out some numbers and decided that the costs the the German economy would six fold higher if Greece were allowed to fail. This is over the cost carried if the dept were under written by Germany and other strong Euro members and the crisis is avoided.

My eye has been elsewhere but if I get a chance I would be interested in looking into the fundamentals of the whole problem- causes, potential costs, resolution options..

 

With socialism you will run out of other peoples' money and then this happens.

 

I don't think that is it.
Spending is less then many in EU.




Here is a bit on the subject- some DD will help get to the bottom of this eh?:

"Now that these countries are trying to get their finances in order, bringing down rates of tax evasion is a high priority. The Italian authorities miss out on an estimated €100 billion ($131 billion) annually in uncollected taxes. European and IMF officials warned Greece this month that curbing tax evasion, which costs the government €15 billion each year, would be vital in unlocking more bail-out money."

http://www.economist.com/node/16792848


Just like the US eh hoyte?

We "don't have a spending problem, we have a revenue problem"

Our coffers have been stripped down to 14% of GPD

 

As a counter point, Germany has not run out of money by a long shot. They are exporting it throughout the EU. France (I think) is also a net exporter of wealth in the EU as well.

Prosperity actually depends on an enormous number of microeconomic factors that come together to form a good macroeconomic picture.

It's not so simple as "socialism" or "capitalism", nor is there a definite line between the two. It's more of a spectrum, with Hugo Chavez in the ultraviolet and the USA in the red or orange. I'd say infrared capitalism would be more like the USA without any social safety net at all... where we let the old and the sick die in the streets because they were useless to employers.

 

Thanks for that data. The news report I heard was wrong, I suppose. I heard an in depth piece on either the BBC or NPR talking about Greece and it suggested they had spent their way into it. However, the other part of the show talked about how they are nearly unable to collect taxes from people. People tend to pay if they want, it said. Maybe the real story is both sides of the coin. You can spend a moderate amount, but if your tax revenue doesn't keep up with whatever you are spending, you are going to run deficits.

I think the newer taxes (from what I recall) were proposed to be tied to the electric bill so you had to pay, or your power went off. Big difference from how taxes are beaten out of us in the States.

 

Remember when Regan tossed the mentally ill off the coffers and they suddenly filled the ranks of the 'homeless' in every city.

I suppose the bums should support themselves eh?
Your own bootstraps and all that...

Yes- I have that as well, presented by some evidence and postured as the 15 year government "spending spree"
I am not in a position to summarize the whole problem- I just am throwing out some data points to flesh out the issue...

 

Why do you think Germany is bleeding money into other parts of Europe?; Socialism.

 

Right. But... my point is that Germany is also "socialist" and has so much money they can support weaker countries.

Kind of puts a hole in the "every socialist country will become broke" theory.

That's my point.

For example, take a look at how wealthy the individual person is in each of the countries in this list of countries, ranked by per capita income, from highest to lowest.

The average income for an individual in several of the most socialist countries in the world is much higher than yours (as an average citizen of the USA). Those countries are:

*Norway
*Switzerland
*Sweden
*Denmark
*The Netherlands

The nordic countries on the list are the epicenter of socialism, yet you are poorer than they are, as an average American.

Just a data point that shows "socialism" doesn't destroy economies, is all.

Where did you hear it did?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

 

Germans just naturally do everything better. Even they can't keep this up forever.

 

Sort of. I was just a little kid at the time, but I do know we are still paying the price for the lack of mental health care in this country:

 

Seems USA did not get the info about the derivatives being sold to greece byGoldman Sachs. I dont know how slow the news is but there is definately a delay in there , maybe you will get to know next week sometime.

Binti is that you when you were a little kid or the wife that likes epoxy, I cant really see what sex is it, nice set of railings though.

 

How could Reagan toss the mentally ill off the coffers when Reagan was president and it is the states who are responsible for those coffers?

The way I remember it is that the mentally ill were released after a lawsuit made it illegal to hold them against their will unless they presented a clear danger to themselves or others.

 

This is a myth created by the Obama administration as part of their attempts to push gun control. A lot of people suspect that the whole point of Fast and Furious was to make the lie true by forcing American gun shops to sell guns to Mexican criminals against the law. That's a part of the scandal that I haven't mentioned before, by the way. Federal agents forced gun dealers to break the law.

You mean fanatical non-laws. The fanatical non-laws that don't exists that don't make it illegal to own certain types of tools used for sport, hunting, and self-defense. Sort of like the fanatical liquor rights laws we have since the repeal of Prohibition is really fanatical non-laws that don't exist, that don't make it illegal for people to own and consume stimulating beverages.

The ATF isn't supposed to control the border, the Border Patrol is. And it isn't that we can't control the border, it's that the federal government doesn't want to control the border. They are all bribed by companies that want cheap illegal labor, and don't give a rat's *** about out-of-work Americans who need those jobs. In addition, the Democrats want illegal immigration because the children of those immigrants vote about 70% Democrat.

Agents have admitted in Congressional testimony that they never even tried to trace the guns once they crossed the border. I don't believe a single arrest was made on the basis of this program. Do you know of one? If not, what was succeeding about the program?

Here's an effective tool: let the guns cross the border and have some Mexican Federalis waiting for them. Owning illegal guns (and even ammunition) in Mexico is a serious felony.