Maltese Falcon ... hit or miss?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Stephen Ditmore, Jun 29, 2006.

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Maltese Falcon, hit or miss?

Poll closed Jun 29, 2007.
  1. A triumph!

    35 vote(s)
    33.7%
  2. Interesting

    58 vote(s)
    55.8%
  3. Uninteresting

    4 vote(s)
    3.8%
  4. A truly stupid concept and a complete waste of time

    7 vote(s)
    6.7%
  1. Lister

    Lister Previous Member

    I was talking for'an'aft about the MF because of the design of her underwater hull. Take a look before judging, and you will agree with me.
    Did you see the profile of the MF?
    Now 1100 tons fore an aft was not uncommon as you should know. If you think it's a dumb idea, it is a ignorant statement. And you are by far not an ignorant man. Don't be a revisionist of the history of sailing ship.
    I know perfectly the square rig, if you read you will se that I wrote "Not twisting the rig" a comment you even didn't make. And that is the real secret of the square rig, as you should know.
    MF is a fantastic egomaniac of stupidity. If you can't twist the square rig, forget about it. A square rig have to have a lot of flexibility, and the design of the spread of canvas related to the underwater design. Which the MF is not.
    Even the wing of a Boeing are twisted, all sail need a twist. the only one who do not know that is MF. And I bet she has to run her generators 100% of the time. What an efficiency!
    As for sail on a tanker, it will remain for a long period of time the Warstila/Sulzer. When the oil will be gone, no need for tankers anymore.
    Bataan jump the rat line, as you certainly done, to see by yourself what's going on on a real square rigger, then come back on deck and tell me I am wrong. You know better.
    Lister
     
  2. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Who Won by How Much

    I wouldn't say 'crushed', but she won in a convincing manner considering their differences in size.

    In the two-boat Open Class, Lloyd Thornburg (St. Barthelemy), skipper of the Gunboat 66 Phaedo, was ecstatic when the Lamborghini-orange multihull crossed the finish line in light air. With a 100-mile lead, Phaedo was the victor in a David and Goliath battle with the magnificent 289’ Maltese Falcon.

    “It has been an epic adventure,” said Thornburg of the race via satellite phone. “We enjoyed the RORC Caribbean 600 so much and it [the Transatlantic Race 2011] just seemed like the next step. During the windy part of this race, we were screaming along in big seas. That was pretty exciting and sometimes hair-raising, especially when flying a hull at night!

    The last few days, however, were slow. Fortunately, Phaedo has plenty of onboard entertainment -- I think our movie count was 25 films. “It has been a wild and amazing experience with some incredible memories. The highlights for me were seeing water so clean it was the color of blue Gatorade; and, when we were becalmed, we had a shark circling the boat which was very eerie. Crossing the Atlantic, you lose track of time and it gives you the feeling like you have gone into space. Now we are heading back to life on land; we are all looking forward to sleeping through the night and we are all tired of freeze-dried food. I think that we will all be tucking into a full English breakfast when we hit the dock at Southampton. Our hearts really go out to the boats that are still out there, some of them must be having a real rough time of it, knowing that it will be days before they get in.”
     
  3. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Sportsmanship

    The Maltese Falcon received high praise from other competing yachts, and rightly so. The skill of the crew was there for all to see right from the start when the immense superyacht tacked in confined quarters to perfection, casting an enormous shadow on the spectator fleet. Later in the race, the crew on the Cookson 50 Jazz was aghast as the Maltese Falcon gybed their enormous three-masted rig time after time to stay in the pressure.

    Last night, just after 0100 UTC, the Maltese Falcon arrived at The Lizard, and the magnificent 289’ Perini Navi sent a heartwarming message back from the racecourse, written by crewmember Sean Truscott;
    “A jubilant crew brings the Big Bird to the line at The Lizard, and the race has ended for us. This is no time to mourn our loss to Phaedo, which has our sincerest congratulations for their outstanding victory.

    "With Maltese Falcon built not as a race boat but a large sailing super yacht, we are proud of our performance and proud to have been part of this spectacular event with all her challenges. Thank you to all the organisers, sponsors and participants. It was wicked!
     
  4. BATAAN
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    The only fore and aft rigs over 1000 tons I can think of are the American schooners of up to 7 masts, like the CHARLES LAWSON here. These were makeshift answers to an economic problem and not very good ships, being slow as soon as the wind came aft. The hard working 3 masters like C. A. THAYER of the west coast lumber fleet rarely exceeded 500 tons, and were fore and aft rigged to deal with the hard voyage north to the dog hole lumber ports against a strong NW wind.
    Twist is always set in a conventional square rig when hard on the wind for two reasons. One, because the wind is slightly faster at the top of the mast making the apparent wind slightly more forward. Two, and this is really the only important one, the helmsman watches his t'gallant or royal weather leech for lifting and takes care not to get the rig aback, because the highest sails will luff before the sails below due to the braced twist.
    I still consider MF an engineering experiment of great value and love sailing square rig more than anything.
    HM BARK ENDEAVOUR was my favorite.
     

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  5. ancient kayaker
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    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    Wind speed is usually measured at a height of 10 m because wind sheer is virtually negligible above that. The Maltese Falcon’s sails do not extend that low, so wind sheer cannot have much effect on a boat of that size.
     
  6. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Aerodynamics of the Rig

    There were considerably studies carried out prior to building this rig. In case you missed some of the referenced postings, have a look at these 2 back on posting #146, Optimized Arcs, Etc

    ...to begin with....
    The rig is based on an original design by W. Proells, which was further developed at Hamburg University in the early 1960’s [7] and is currently being developed by designers from Gerard Dijkstra & Partners and Doyle Sailmakers.


    Here are a few other references from another forum:
    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/26346-post26.html

    Sloop vs Square Rig posting
    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/27556-post53.html

    Slot Effect Aerodynamics
    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/32403-post117.html

    Twist in the Rig
    The major problem encountered with trying to provide for twist in this rig is that a vertical slot had already been 'cut' into the mast to provide for the sails to be furled inside. This substantially weaken the freestanding mast in bending mode to the point that additional complications of dealing with a little twist variation was decided against.
     
  7. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Tom Perkin's quote

    ...a quote from man who had the convictions to go forward with such a bold project:


    "I have read with interest the opinions and questions posted about my Maltese Falcon "Clipper Yacht" over recent weeks. I'll attempt to answer these as best I can now that some time has elapsed.

    We call her a clipper because she attempts to achieve the multiple advantages of those fast square riggers from the past. If you look at photographs of the last of the big sailing windjammers, you will see that the fore and aft sails are really just vistigial---all the power is coming from the square sails themselves. The Dijkstra design simply carries this trend to its logical end, and eliminates all these redunant sails. The DynsRig concept leads to a yacht with the ability to point so high, that jibs, etc. are just in the way.

    The superstructure is just sufficiently high to permit a view ahead, over the bow, from the wheel house. Any lower, and the view would be blocked by the bow, and thus I believe, be unsafe.

    The signal mast forward is required for the radars, which cannot be mounted on the rotating masts. The height is required to raise the radar beam above the superstructure sufficiently to protect crew from the radiation. Also, this mast, in my opinion, fills in a space where one might otherwise expect to see jibs, and so it is there partly for aesthetic reasons.

    The sails are set automatically by a single person from a central console. Of course, there is routine maintenance required by an agile crew of sailors aloft, but rarely do they have to be in the rig during sailing. The upper sails are set or furled as required to control heeling. In a twenty knot true wind with everything set, and hard on the wind, the heeling angle is about 22 degrees. This isn't much for a small boat, but it feels too much for most guests, so we furl the sails necessary to keep heeling to around 15 degrees, and there is only a modest drop in speed.

    To date the we have set and furled all the sails over one thousand times. We have had only two or three problems requiring a man to go aloft to sort. We have experienced no damage to sails or rig. This is a staggering number. With all due respect to Mirabella V, I expect that during her entire lifetime, which I trust will be very long, her sails will not be set this many times. The DynaRig is very practical for a big boat, for the ease of use factor, if for no other reason.

    The Falcon may be a motor sailor, but not by my definition, since she sails faster than she motors---if that doesn't qualify her as a sailboat, then what does?

    I have raced classics for much of my life. I believe the Falcon is a new classic, and to my eye, she is very beautiful."

    Tom Perkins
     
  8. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    "Yes its true, we hit 24.8 kts (GPS) in max 67Kts wind crossing the gulf of Lyon in a Mistral. 3 sails up and going like a train!!!!"
    Jed White, chief engr in original crew


    ...on another occassion
    Maltese Falcon Breaks Cutty Sark's Record
    May 2 - Azores

    "Just a quick note from East of the Azores. I'm happy to report that the Falcon has just broken the Cutty Sark's best 24-hour run. The Cutty did 362 nautical miles and we've done 380. I believe the Cutty's record has never been broken by a square rigger . . . until today. The wind's averaged about 27 knots and the forecast is for slightly stronger winds into Gibraltar, so we'll be shooting to break 400 miles tomorrow."
    It's an interesting contrast that the Cutty required a crew of nearly 30 men while Falcon can be sailed at the push of a few buttons by just one man.
     
  9. MikeJohns
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    Maltese Falcon is 20% longer on the waterline than the Cutty Sark . Adjust for the Froude number and the results are close to equal (MF is slightly slower) but more importantly Cutty Sark displaced nearly 70 % more at close to 900 tons heavier.

    Cutty Sark was a much more powerful ship when it came to standing up to her sail as well as having a more efficient rig. So really Mf doesn’t come anywhere near CSarks performance.

    Also the crew of the Cutty Sark, of around 30 men were divided into two watches. That’s around 15 men on deck say 12 to ‘work ship’ except in times of dire need.

    Maltease has a permanent crew equivalent to one of Cutty Sarks watches but runs large engines continuously when sailing (and bunkers over 80 tons of diesel). That’s her replacement for the manpower. It would be interesting to know how much fuel she burns crossing the Atlantic ‘under sail’. (And what size motor craft could cross on that same amount of fuel).

    It’s probably just me, but the style of many of these palaces reminds me of an expensive shopping mall or casino foyer. It’s also a dangerous interior for a ship that heels at angles over 20 degrees to windward. Cutty Sark would have been much more comfortable at sea.
     

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  10. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Very interesting reply there Mike.

    ...and I agree with you about those palace interiors...not that seaworthy
     
  11. CutOnce

    CutOnce Previous Member

    I don't think seaworthy interiors are a serious consideration for the owners and guests. I think anchorworthy and magazine/photogenic palace interiors are a major criteria. And that's okay - these yachts aren't built for rugged individuals looking for physical and mental challenge and risk.

    --
    CutOnce
     
  12. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    But at the very least they could provide hand rails in the ceilings in order to cross wide open spaces.
     
  13. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Tad Boat Designer



    This is mistaken.....I believe a number of clipper's broke the 400 mile barrier, including the Lighting, Flying Cloud, and the James Baines (423 miles Feb 6th 1855) which ran 420 miles on June 18th 1856.....noted in the famous log entry "Lat 42deg 47' S, long 115deg 54' E. Distance 420 miles. Winds W. to S.W. Breeze freshening; 8.30 pm, in all starboard studding sails; ship going 21 knots , with main-skysail set; midnight, fresh gale and fine clear night; noon, less wind, attended with snow-squals."
     
  14. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    From the World Sailing Speed Record Council ---> 24 Hour Distance . . . .

    ‘‘ 1854 "Champion of the Sea" 225ft Clipper, USA, 467nm. 19.46kts ’’

    Stood for almost 130 years*, then broken by a Cat in 1984 . . . .

    ‘‘ 1984 "Formule Tag" 75ft Cat (Tri**), Mike Birch, CAN, 512.5nm. 21.35kts ’’

    and by a mono it wasn't broken until 2001 (and then only by 0.7 NM in 24h ;)) . . .

    ‘‘ 2001 "Armor Lux" 60ft, Bernard Stamm, SUI, 467.7nm, 19.48kts ’’


    Champion of the Seas - - (Btw, who's wrong aboout the 2 NM, Wiki or the WSSRC :D)

    ‘‘ She set the record for the longest day's run, 465 nautical miles (861 km) on 10-11 December 1854 on her maiden voyage from Liverpool to Melbourne. ’’

    [​IMG] :eek:
    click to enlarge


    Gentlemen, can I please have your advice here . . . . Thanks :)

    Cheers,
    Angel

    PS

    * Champion of the Seas' 24h distance record stood from December 11 1854 till August #? 1984, so 129 years and 8 months.

    ** 'Formule Tag' ‘‘Tri’’ is wrong WSSRC info, she turns out to be a Cat, see post: #249 -- #251 -- #253 -- #257.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2011

  15. BATAAN
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    I would like to add, the earlier records were set while carrying a large amount of profitable cargo, and not in an ideal light ballast condition, or yacht trim like MF is, without cargo holds. To compare apples to apples, put 500-700 tons of cargo in a vessel trying to break these old records, then I'll believe they are actually faster. Don't forget that mates were known to padlock the topsail and topgallant halyards so terrified crew did not reduce sail without orders, and the ships were driven very hard by very hard men.
     
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