Maxi Canter, Rambler, capsizes in Fastnet Race

Thanks for posting that Doug. Glad to see JK had elucidated so succinctly the debate that has been raging in the design world over the past 5 to 10 years or so. However it would be wrong to even suggest it's applicable to this situation until the facts of the situation are known.

 

Rambler

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I agree, Crag-just want to get as much info out as possible-no judgement at this point.
Here is what his website says: http://www.juanyachtdesign.com/index.html

Established in 1997 by Juan Kouyoumdjian, Juan Yacht Design (JYD) is involved in every aspect of the design of racing and cruising yachts, from conception and analysis through to final construction drawings.


Based in Valencia, Spain, JYD is composed of a multicultural team specialized in the design of high performance racing yachts. Its members are at the forefront of yacht design and engineering, from the most sophisticated simulations using 3D, CFD and FEA tools to the production of detailed construction drawings and interaction with building teams.

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Design Philosophy

JYD has built up a reputation for creating innovative designs which push the boundaries of technology and imagination. We strive to enhance our designs to give the optimum performance

The design philosophy represents what has been JYD's strong belief since its origins: to allow the designer's creativity and innovation to define the starting points [at any level] as well as the recognized paths of evolution; then apply most advanced design and engineering technology to those principles.

Knowledge and experience are the essence of this process because no tool or model can accurately simulate every aspect of reality. The designer's decision making process is therefore based on what the tools cannot model, rather than the contrary. It involves an understanding of which parts of reality can and cannot be simulated.

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Volvo Ocean Racing site Biography: http://press.volvooceanrace.com/?p=39

Juan Kouyoumdjian was born in Buenos Aires, Argentina, in 1971; his surname is of Armenian origin.
Designer of the two ABN AMRO winning boats during the Volvo Ocean Race 2005-06, Kouyoumdjian has been involved in all sorts of projects during his career: including the Admiral’s Cup, TP 52’s, IRC and the America’s Cup.


Kouyoumdjian grew up sailing Optimists, before competing in events such as the Lightning World Championship (2nd place), the Commodore’s Cup (1st place), One Ton Cup (1st place) and the Melges 24 World Championship. His passion for sailing inspired him to study naval architecture. In 1993, he earned a degree in Yacht and Small Craft Design in Southampton, England. He then went on to participate in his first America’s Cup in 1995, with the French challenger Le Défi Français, before working for Le Défi, in 2000. In 2003, Kouyoumdjian moved to Italy to join the PRADA design team and is currently part of BMW ORACLE Racing’s design team.

He achieved his greatest success in the Volvo Ocean Race, designing two very powerful boats aimed at surfing at high speed whilst remaining fairly simple to manage for their crews. Juan’s yachts won six out of nine offshore legs, and dominated the fleet in five out of seven in-port races.

Juan Yacht Design (JYD) is based in Valencia, Spain and consists of a team of 10 skilled engineers specialising in the design of high performance racing yachts.

Age: 35
Family: Married to Kelly
Nationality: Argentinean

 

Talk about rewriting my post for maximum drama and minimum accuracy. My point was that ridiculously wealthy folks should be underwriting the cost of their misadventures. I wrote nothing about the nonsense you've posted. Sounds like a flash mob swarming mentality.

I do apologize for using Mr. Frolich's name as part of a pun on the word frolic.

No, I did not try, convict or hang anyone - those words and the images they project are completely your fabrication. My post indicated that unexpected catastrophic failures that occur when well under maximum design loads frequently indicate either design problems, undiscovered accumulated damage or build problems. This isn't an indictment - it is statement of probability. I know there are many to whom discussing probability is politically incorrect, but frequently the loudest protesters for political correctness are actively promoting their own agenda.

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CutOnce

 

Obviously I was being melodramatic, to make my point. You, on the other hand, are now trying to minimize and back off from the tone of your original comments -- which struck me as a rather bitter attack on yacht racing in general and yacht designers in particular, along with the yacht owners.

 

As the original poster, I'm concerned by your responses, Troy. You make critical statements of others regarding issues where you have no depth and then when called on them by a person who works in the engineering trade, you pass it off as being melodramatic. Help me on this.

 

I'll respond to that in a PM instead of a public post, in hopes of maintaining what little decorum this thread has left...

 

Not really relevant to this situation.

Speedboat is a JuanK design.

No other designers have been involved in modifications.

The purpose of the original design was ocean racing and breaking records for ocean courses (like the Fastnet Race).

The boat is run by and crewed by professional sailors and they were not using it in a way that was not intended.

 

Rambler

From RTE News, Ireland: http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0817/yacht.html

A number of divers have been examining the Ramble 100 yacht which is moored in Barleycove Bay, Co Cork, after capsizing on Monday.

They have been retrieving personal items and also assessing the damage to the yacht.

A decision is expected later today as to where the yacht will go from here and whether it will be overturned.Earlier, the yacht's team van, which had been waiting for the crew to cross the finishing line in Plymouth, arrived in Baltimore with the crew's clothes.

The yachtsmen, who had been wearing borrowed clothes since they were plucked from the sea on Monday evening, are now sporting their team uniform of blue and white.

Two of the crew have already flown home via Cork Airport, another two are due to depart this afternoon.

Many others are waiting on emergency passports before they will begin to head home or to their next race.

Most of the crew are staying in accommodation at the Mariner's Cove complex, while others are staying with local families.

click on image---

 

This is not correct. Even as far back as the 1970s there was technology that would allow designers to produce boats with deep canting keels with bulbs on them. The predominant worldwide racing rules prevented such things.

The keel fins on most deep bulb keels and canting keels are steel. That material has been around for a long time.

The bulbs are lead. No magic there.

So a deep fin keel with a lead bulb (like a model boat) would not have been an issue in the 1970s.

The hydraulics for adjusting a canting keel have also been possible since the 1970s or earlier.

The internal framing that is now made of carbon could have been made of other materials in the 1970s. It just would have been a bit heavier.

There was a One Tonner in the early 80s that actually had the entire lead keel pivot on a shaft (like a rudder). This was allowed by the rules, but incurred a penalty. But the technology was in existence to build such a thing.

 

Rambler

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I disagree-I think the writer of that comment("SE" from SA) was more right than wrong.

 

I'm sure you can't tell us how he was more right than wrong.


Steel was available.

Lead was available.

Hydraulics were available.


The only reason no one built deep bulb keels in the 1970s was the IOR rule didn't allow them. No one was going to spend mega dollars to build something they could not race.

 

Apparently, the bad boy is back upright, though looking truly thrashed.

 

Rambler

Peter Isler interview: http://www2.worldpub.net/images/sw/4-SWPodcast110816.mp3

 

Doug, that's not the picture, it's this one..

Seems clearly an I or H section. Doug Shickler commented that such a section was not ideal, but perhaps chosen because it was easier to machine. The rule requiring a solid section prevents a welded-up box section, apparently. Is welding technology still so unreliable that this sort of thing is actually safer?

 

Rambler

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You're right-certainly better than the other one. I'm still wondering why the owner would say it was a solid stainless keel? UNLESS, maybe what we're seeing is the stainless structural part covered by a fairing?