Fastest Sailboat on the Planet!

Fact

the very first rule listed by this comity states clearly that all contenders have the right to compete under similar conditions on any continent.

digging a ditch which accommodates only a certain class of vehicle ( sailboards are not classified as boats by the USCG ) and artificially enhancing those conditions through the use of external devices represents a serious deviation from not only the rules but also the spirit of the event.

Hydropter remains the fastest sailboat on the water with Sailrocket coming up to do its best and possibly become our next great champion

sorry Blue
the ditch still looks like cheating to a lot of people

 

Still no facts from Doug.

Please define boat. Please do not state an opinion.

We know and understand that there are differences between sailboats, sailboards and kiteboards but that does not matter for the Outright record because its an Outright speed record......a record that is currently held by a kitesurfer not Hydroptere.

"A boat is a WATERCRAFT of modest size designed to FLOAT or PLANE, to provide PASSAGE across water. Usually this water will be inland (lakes) or in protected coastal areas. However, boats such as the whaleboat were designed to be operated from a ship in an offshore environment. In naval terms, a BOAT is a VESSEL SMALL enough to be carried aboard another vessel (a ship). Another less restrictive definition is a vessel that can be lifted out of the water. Strictly speaking and uniquely a submarine is a boat as defined by the Royal Navy. Some boats too large for the naval definition include the Great Lakes freighter, riverboat, narrowboat and ferryboat."

"Boats have served as short-distance transportation since early times.[1] Circumstantial evidence, such as the early settlement of Australia over 40,000 years ago, suggests that boats have been used since ancient times. The earliest boats have been predicted[2] to be logboats.The oldest boats to be found by archaeological excavation are logboats from around 7,000–10,000 years ago. The oldest recovered boat in the world is the canoe of Pesse; it is a dugout or hollowed tree trunk from a Pinus sylvestris."

Boats can be categorized into three types:

"Unpowered or human-powered boats. (Unpowered boats include rafts and floats meant for one-way downstream travel. Human-powered boats include canoes, kayaks, gondolas and boats propelled by poles like a punt.)
Sailing boats, which are boats propelled solely by means of sails.
Motorboats, which are boats propelled by mechanical means, such as engines."

All contenders /classes of of sailboats DO have the "RIGHT"....... they can sail in Luderitz NAM or in Walvis Bay NAM, Saintes Maries de la mar FRA, Port Saint Louis FRA, Sandy Point AUS, Fuerteventura ESP or any place that the contender wishes to sail......this makes the conditions similar if the contender wishes to participate!

Do you hear kiters and windsurfers saying that its unfair that L'hydroptere races in rougher water? Nope! Because that is their "right" just as its the right of windsurfers and kitesurfers to sail in shallower flatter water.

The ditch is not cheating.......WSSRC and ISAF are the judges and they agree.

Did you guys raise your opinions/objections when windsurfers set WR's in France on a canal in 2004, 2005 and 2008?

Remember, use facts in your rebuttal........ please.

 

your barking at the wind again

as "Doug" pointed out
the USCG has defined sailboards
they are not sailboats

 

show me the facts. please
Doug and the USCG dont have anything to do with ratifying world speed sailing records.
The WSSRC has ruled that kitesurfers are the fastest sailboats - kitesailors are the fastest sailors!

 

Hydroptere-Fastest Sailboat on the Planet!

I think there is widespread consensus that while kiteboarding is sailing-kiteboards are not boats. They may be defined as sail carrying "vessels" or sailing "craft" but they are NOT boats. Kites are the fastest sailing craft on the water-but, again, they are not sailboats. Therefore, Hydroptere is still the fastest sailboat over 500m and the nautical mile. Here is the Coast Guard position on sailboards. And the Weymouth position on Kites and sailboards:

1)United States Coast Guard on the question :


Q: What is the difference between a "sailboat" and a "sailboard?"

A: While many sailboard manufacturers advertise their products as "sailboats," there are major differences between the two. A sailboat has a fixed mast that the operator does not need to hold up. The design of a sailboat is such that the operator and any passengers can sit down. A sailboard has a free fall system for the sail and mast. In order to sail a sailboard, the operator must stand up and hold up the mast. If a sailboard carries more than one person, it is designed so that each person operates a separate sail while standing on the board.

http://www.windvisions.com/USCGdefinition.html


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2) Even the officials at Weymouth Speed Week make the distinction between boards and boats-as representing different classes:

Weymouth Speed Week 2010 - Classes & Prizes http://www.speedsailing.com/2010Classes_prizes.htm

Classes(among others):

1) Sailboard Pro Fleet (derives financial benefit from the sport)

2) Boat Fleet (not a sail or kite board, may have sails, kites or rotors)

3) Kite Fleet (kite propelled, sinks when stationary)




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Case Closed

 

case isn't closed entirely
although I appreciate you clearing that up for ole Blue who seems to be a bit confused on what the rest of the world deems a boat

there is still the issue of

so I'd be curious to read the race commissions actual ruling on the issues of external mechanical modification of the water and external mechanical modification of the wind, and how they justify what is obviously a purpose built course for a specific type of vehicle which fails to provide the "similar conditions for all contenders as specified in the very first rule they list

something just seems fishy

the very first rule is unmistakable in its intent and its wording

 

Lots of good facts & good presentation.

On the other hand

Vessel:

A hollow utensil, such as a cup, vase, or pitcher, used as a container, especially for liquids.
2.
a. Nautical A craft, especially one larger than a rowboat, designed to navigate on water.
b. An airship.
3. Anatomy A duct, canal, or other tube that contains or conveys a body fluid: a blood vessel.
4. Botany One of the tubular conductive structures of xylem, consisting of dead cylindrical cells that are attached end to end and connected by perforations. They are found in nearly all flowering plants.

Both "boat" and "vessel" really started out as describing a craft that is capable of containing people and/or cargo.

The fact that people can move pretty fast on roller skates does not make them a "human powered car".

Yes, anyone zipping around out on the water needs to follow the rules that were written for boats.

I am a very big fan of the great accomplishments of todays fastest sailors (kites), but I think I will continue to regard them as something other than a boat.

On another note, Sailrocket 2, looks incredible and I would say that it has a good shot at putting the kites back in second place. I am not sure, but I may concede that Paul's latest ride is getting pretty close to being a low flying aircraft instead of a boat. At operating speed, only the forward planing surface and a main foil will be touching the water.

The biggest concerns I would have for this craft are whether they have the right foil design to beat the cavitation problem and whether they have all of the pieces up to the structural loads. Both of these can be fixed if needed, but it would be nice to see more sailing and less re-working this time around. The other concern that might come up is that their Walvis Bay speed strip seem kind of short & shallow last time around.

 

Sail Rocket: maybe the fastest sailboat on the planet!

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I hope Sail Rocket II can do the job-if it does it will surely be the fastest sailboat on the planet putting Hydroptere in second place. I think if the boat starts at zero speed supporting its crew in a hull with a rig attached to and supported by the hull it is safe to say that it is a boat!
It is very interesting to see a high speed sailing design evolve to using lift from a hydrofoil and from the rig at the same time as it uses lift from planing-very cool and worth a lot of thought.
Go get 'em Sail Rocket!

 

Hydroptere-Fastest Sailboat on the Planet!

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That is flat not true. What is true is that the WSSRC recognize's that kites hold the World Sailing Speed Record which I have repeatedly said I respect a great deal!
But the WSSRC NEVER "ruled that kitesurfers are the fastest sailboats"- that is simply a false statement. It may seem like nitpicking to you
but it's not: we use language to be able to accurately describe events and while kiting is sailing kiteboards are not boats.
That's just the way it is.
And on this beautiful night in paradise, Hydroptere remains the fastest sailboat on the planet-but maybe not for long.

 

Flado's
I'm not sure Sail Rocket will be putting the ditch people in second place; myself and a lot of other people see a significant problem in considering any record times that were not made under the conditions prescribed by the rules. Therefor ditchers have no place as far as honest contenders are concerned. Now if you held them in there own class and realized that they are not competing under similar conditions as everyone else and consider that they are breaking the rules again when they use mechanically modified conditions then it seems only fair that while they certainly deserve a spot in the record books somewhere it can't reasonably be in any kind of overall consideration in the speed class. That being the case they might as well develop a 500m wind tunnel and race down the length of it in a bucket of water, speeds dependent on fan speed at that point, but is it a wind powered craft record, I don't thing so but apparently according to the present race committee it would be.

similar conditions for all contenders

thems the rules

is a clear and primary consideration which for some mysterious reason the present race committee is ignoring, my bet is future race committee's will at some point be forced to take a more honest look at the situation. However it seems clear to most at least that its the mechanically altered forces of both wind and waves that seems most out of touch with the spirit of the rules. These issues also will eventually have to be addressed by any legal challenges for the tittle of fastest sailing vessel.

 

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Boston, you're 100% right. I wish I could see a way that it can be resolved.

 

well someone will come along and follow the rules and win fair and square, at which point when they are not recognized as having played fair and made the best time some billionaire backer is going to step in and have dinner with his Harvard lawyer. My bet is it will be one of the shortest cases ever deliberated

 

Enough with the ditch bitching. Whenever someone (hopefull SR2) assembles boat that will run at Walvis Bay (or equivalent) at well above what a sailboard can do, I hope you guys will just quit with the whining.

 

cheating is cheating, it diminishes us all when we tolerate favoritism in what is intended to be a level playing field.

Personally I'm not that worried about it because in the end people who cheat seldom end up on top for long and more often than not end up embarrassed by there actions.

some might want to label a reasonable questions concerning the confines of the rules as whining but when those questioned can only answer with cheap labels and refusing to respond to the issues presented then it becomes pretty obvious there's been some good questions presented the answers to which they must not be looking forward to.

as I said this issue would last about five seconds in a court room

besides
the big mechanical only boats in the end must surpass the limitations of the human component so essential to the ditch riders rig

 

"we use language to be able to accurately describe events and while kiting is sailing kiteboards are not boats." - Doug

"A sail is any type of surface intended to generate thrust by being placed in a wind—in essence a vertically-oriented wing. Sails are used in sailing."........i.e kite

"A boat is a watercraft of modest size designed to float.........." - i.e. kiteboard or windsurfer

Therefore, a sail + a boat = a sailboat!

"Although it might be considered a minimalistic version of a sailboat, a windsurfer offers experiences that are outside the scope of any other sailing craft design. Windsurfers can perform jumps, inverted loops, spinning maneuvers, and other "freestyle" moves that cannot be matched by any sailboat."

"....distinctions in the size are not strictly defined and what constitutes a sailing ship, sailboat, or a smaller vessel (such as a sailboard) VARIES by region and culture."

At the least, you have stated that kitesurfers are the fastest sailors on earth and I agree!

But to those who are calling kitesurfers "cheaters", who are recognized by the WSSRC (ratifying body of speed sailing records) as holding the Outright World Speed Sailing Record today is outrageous and beyond debate. It is disrespectful of the WSSRC, kitesurfers and speed sailing.

WSSR Newsletter No 196. Rob Douglas Outright World Record 08/12/10
The WSSR Council announces the ratification the latest World Sailing Speed Record. There are no claims at present to exceed this record:

Amen!