Origami steel yacht construction

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by origamiboats, Nov 30, 2001.

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  1. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
    Posts: 1,260
    Likes: 148, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1806
    Location: South Africa

    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    Magwas, since you are sold on origami, I believe you will lean towards BS crap.

    That said my friend, do not start an attack on Richard (Apex1) . He had the balls to say outright what most of us wanted to say all along.:!:

    Not picking sides, I had never came upon a post where he falsely accuses someone, on the contrary, I had seen quite a few posts where he apologizes and said he was not aware when given proof, links etc.
    Never had BS acknowledged any of his misgivings - on the contrary again, he rather insults others and calling them idiots and ******.

    I suggest you tone down and look at the reality and the reasons all of us, including Richard, are trying at; we care for this forum. To some of us it is a home from home, we want to share quality advice based on facts, engineering practices, hands on experience etc to those who want advice. Not the mambo jumbo BS serves up and attacking sound engineering facts.

    Have you noticed how BS answer 2 items with 5 postings for instance? Why, obviously to use the number of postings in some marketing issue I suppose.
    Most of the time less is more....
     
  2. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    I really now agree with Richard.
    On a other thread I make a joke,
    I receive a negative.
    I can't post with this guy giving me a negative.
    I think Woosh was better than Brent and he was ban.
    So where is the consensus here?
    Some can be awfully insulting and get away, some can't?
    It is already impossible to have any thread on steel or making a joke without Brent been there.
    I don't know, but make me think.
    I design steel boat, and I am not allowed almost to post without this Brent coming after me.
    This is not good in my opinion.
    What Brent said to Wynand was terrible. Guess what, nothing happens.
    I just don't mention what he said to me.
    It seams he can treat people of been crooks and get away. I never heard of something like that.
    This is not good at all.
    And no, I don't put people on my ignore list, I have the right to know what other says and contribute. The ignore list is a way of cowardice, not been wise.
    Daniel
     
  3. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    Yes Wynand, I have noticed, nobody open a good thread on steel because of Brent.
    Who rely want to be insulted by this man?
    As you say very wisely: your call Jeff
    Daniel
     
  4. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    Read Brent's post before being judgemental. Take you time, and you will see why Richard is pissed off.
    If I call you a crook who over-charge your client, you will be happy and says: Yes you so right Brent?
    NO of course.
    But Brent did worst: he accused professional of being:
    And the list of negative is too long!
    Please read before judging on one post.
    Daniel
     
  5. Jeff
    Joined: Jun 2001
    Posts: 1,368
    Likes: 71, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 923
    Location: Great Lakes

    Jeff Moderator

    There is nothing wrong with using the rep system as long as the complaints are legitimate and real; if the posts in question are giving bad or dangerous advice, breaking forum rules, being excessively rude to other posters, etc. the rep system is a tool that is helpful to me as moderator to gauge how the community feels about what someone is posting. I only ask that people don't use the system to be hurtful or malicious, but if used responsibility, it is helpful.
     
  6. junk2lee
    Joined: Jul 2010
    Posts: 76
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 18
    Location: Canada

    junk2lee Junior Member

    Yes,I know what you were talking about.Marconi rigs are about keeping a column in compression Spreaders ideally reduce column lengths while the shrouds "take" the tension side...and therefore the masts are all about "buckling" in the middle and not "breaking" at the partners.... my point is simply that as an analogy to framed or unframed sailboats,or propane tanks and submarines,it's a bit offbeat,is all.

    But,yes,you can easily make a free standing mast that tall even if only a steel lampost if you want to use steel.(Personally,I would not use steel for a junkmast because the parrels et al might burn/chafe the paint off it)
    Whatever.
     
  7. junk2lee
    Joined: Jul 2010
    Posts: 76
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 18
    Location: Canada

    junk2lee Junior Member

    No,it's because the network he is using is quirky- a public one.So he must save each post somehow before they're lost in the cloud.
     
  8. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    Could you use this to everybody?
    The only negative I receive from Brent are personal, not on value of the post.
    So?
    Could you please delete the negative, it has NOTHING to do with post. Again.
    Jeff I am pissed off. I post the lines of a steel vessel, Brent without asking the GM value, stating the boat will be unstable.
    I answered with two pages of calculations.
    He stated I over charge clients. I told you so, you didn't act.
    I am pissed off and confuse.
    And no I can post on steel boat without having this lunatic up my arse. thank you.
    And a little newbie jerk (gray square) gave me a negative on the steel question, must be one of the Brent alias.
    By the way could you ask people to sign the negatives, will be nice.
    To be honnest I never signed a negative, and its wrong.
    Daniel
     
  9. junk2lee
    Joined: Jul 2010
    Posts: 76
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 18
    Location: Canada

    junk2lee Junior Member

    Those that don't read history are doomed to repeat it

    I've been reading Brent's other posts...on other threads,he pops in with an idea and IF someone comes back to him, he elucidates.On this thread,he came in just that way replying to Tugboat...page 3 of this thread

    .....and then apex injects a snide remark:"Wow,
    finally they found each other, the novice and the amateur!"

    Brent responds with a question on page 4"If someone who has built three dozen boats with his own hands, is either a novice or an amateur,then we would be interested in hearing how many boats you have built with your own hands and how many ocean crossings and how many thousands of open ocean miles you have done in your own designs , which you have built with your own hands, as well as how many decades you have lived aboard these boats and maintained them for."


    apex doesn't come back til page 6 when the pot is beginning to boil-the others are beginning to form up in a pack! Not with an answer to the above question.Just more fuel....

    I paraphrase for lack of a classic education,but "Those that don't read history are doomed to repeat it."
     
  10. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Completely agree Jeff.

    And I did use that tool.

    But that is not the point.

    Even negative feedback did never hold BS back from spreading his wrong* and sometimes dangerous* drivel on almost every metal boat related post in the past five years.

    We have heard the same boring anecdotes, lies, and stories at least 30 times now and are really fed with them.

    Whenever, where ever, we contradicted his false statements he insulted and attacked immediately, instead of proving us wrong.

    That guy is a liar and cheater, and we all know that. Unfortunately a novice reading just five or ten posts here may have the impression he found solid advice and a valid and cheap way to build his boat, when he follows that guy.
    That is a trap, and we have proven that a dozen times now.

    As Wynand and Daniel made clear above, the value of ALL metal related threads here went down to zero, since BS is spreading his religious nonsense on them. He abuses this platform for free ads. And for exactly that reason he replies on two statements in five posts!

    Ban him,
    nobody here has any benefit from his junk yard drivel, but all suffer from hijacked threads.

    Regards
    Richard

    * proven several dozen times by almost all experts on the board, wrong and dangerous.
     
  11. bearflag
    Joined: May 2010
    Posts: 227
    Likes: 17, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 195
    Location: Thousand Oaks, California

    bearflag Inventor/Fabricator

    I would prefer to have his signature permanently modified to say something like:

    "the views of this poster are his own and are not reflective of the steel boatbuilding industry. take all claims at face value, the designs and methodologies promoted from this user may suffer from serious structural design flaws, use caution in assessing the claims expressed.

    It is advisable that before construction of any project you consult a registered naval architect, some have been provided at the following link <insert link>. An Active discussion of the designer in question can be found at <insert link>.

    Consider yourself warned."


    In say bold red font as a signature. May need to be toned up/down.
     
  12. rugludallur
    Joined: Jan 2006
    Posts: 81
    Likes: 17, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 249
    Location: Iceland

    rugludallur Rugludallur

    Isn't there any sort of regulatory authority in Canada that can deal with this?

    For a while now I've been wondering if there isn't some form of regulation in place in either the US or Canada which prevents unqualified people from selling/promoting boat/ship designs which could prove dangerous.

    Over here there is a maritime administrations office which has to approve any marine design above 6m LOA, they do all the structural calculations and verify everything for safety. They also inspect your boat several times during the build process and are required randomly x-rayd welds.

    There must be some regulations in place which should prevent this sort of thing or can anyone with a pencil and paper (or Freeship) design boats and sell the plans commercially?

    Jarl
    http://dallur.com
     
  13. bearflag
    Joined: May 2010
    Posts: 227
    Likes: 17, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 195
    Location: Thousand Oaks, California

    bearflag Inventor/Fabricator

    Professional organizations do this for architects, engineers, and the like. However, Brent is not a professional in the sense of being a licensed/certified type person.

    Its always good advice to have a well reputed inspector check things out during and after construction or before a purchase. And as I noted before, to have a naval architect and engineer or two approve plans ahead of time. Caveat emptor to those who want to "save a buck" by not doing this.

    Furthermore, there should be an additional check by any insurance agency willing to ensure something.

    Commercial liability is of course another hurdle.

    Brent skates by many of these things thru the home-builder/amateur exemptions. IE he doesn't actually build the boats, he merely consult's or does some hourly work on them, he doesn't do any finishing work.

    Brent says he has been selling additional plans because of this thread, I call BS on that more people are building the boats, but I think it is probably true that many are buying the plans just to question them.
     
  14. bearflag
    Joined: May 2010
    Posts: 227
    Likes: 17, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 195
    Location: Thousand Oaks, California

    bearflag Inventor/Fabricator

    Caveat Emptor

    In addendum:

    I like to think of myself as a "fairly" competent engineer. I am proficient with almost any CAD/CAM/CAE application that one could imagine. I can do differential equations, or other mathematics with the best of them. I'd be willing to bet that any boat I design and build would be on par or surpass any but the best designed and manufactured production boats.

    HOWEVER

    I am not so full of pride and hubris to think that I would build anything larger than a beach cat without the advise and consultation of those MUCH MUCH MUCH more knowledgeable than myself. Before I go about building anything you can be damn sure I do some hard math several times, compare my CAE data with pen and pencil numbers, make sure these are in line with expected typical values, and compliment any scale models I make. After all of that, you can be sure that I would get the approval of a trustworthy NA to sign off on it.

    Before I plopped down years of work, and hundreds of thousands of dollars into materials and labor etc. You can be damned right that I want this thing to meet the expected performance specifications, and more importantly the safety requirements. But in the absolutely lowest sense, the financial ones. Frankly if you aren't willing to go thru the above hurdles, for a house, a boat, or a business or anything similar... how would you expect that investment to be worth what it should on sale or resale? Or what of consumer liability? One claim in court could put your company out of business or you into bankruptcy.... that should be enough to turn any person straight.

    But beyond that... whenever you are putting people's lives in your care, you would think that even an outside possibility of their danger would prompt one to put a little extra scrutiny and care into their process...

    And this is the real reason for regulations whether for building homes, boats, or the like. Class society regulations (in the absence of a certified engineer's exemption) serve as the MINIMUM to prevent or minimize financial and safety losses.

    Sort of a rant... but knowing that Brent doesn't put that level of care into his boat construction or design, would you buy one of his plans or boats?

    I know I wouldn't.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2010

  15. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    Even if Brent sell his plan let say $500 (which is not true he sell them for several thousand dollars) he mislead his clients and over charge them.
    He has not a clue about naval architecture, how can he pretend to sell plans?
    He can't. He is this kind of little middle man, who find a "niche" and screw everyone by selling something extremely dangerous.
    Brent answer that: what is the GM of your design. Please provide the complete set of calculation to back your answer. Which means the weight calculation in detail, and also the roll period and acceleration.
    I you can't, I will ask you to leave the forum, since to insinuate that I was not a naval architect, and didn't read my very complete answer about my steel boat but inset insult me and my integrity.
    If you can't answer, I will ask Jeff (not an easy task as I understood) again to ban you for lying, been deceptive, been antisemitic openly when not asking for any political belief (in the weather thread), insulting the integrity of professional (in every thread).
    So to be on topic I repeat :what is the GM of your design. Please provide the complete set of calculation to back your answer. Which means the weight calculation in detail, and also the roll period and acceleration?
    A rambling about me will not do it, and a negative by your alias will not do it either.
    Good luck, because you will need it.
    Daniel
     
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