Origami steel yacht construction

This thread isn't about apartheid, it's about origami steel yacht construction. Brent likes to throw crap like this in to screw up threads. Don't be stupid enough to follow him down that path, because it doesn't lead anywhere.

 

We're just taking a break. Who wants to be ponderously serious for pages at a time without a breather? Don't worry; the thread will get back on track.

 

Lol
Yeah, Troy, but you're forgetting or don't know that Brent is First Nations(aboriginal), therefore fully aware of Canada's past. He's just taking a cheap shot at Wynand because he knows he can't build boats as well as him. A sad display of envy on Brent's behalf. I, on the other hand, am calling you out; pistols at dawn!
Mike

 

Re-read post 103 to 113 here: click...http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/classification/transverse-frame-calculation-32584-7.html#post367185 this is where you told me to make a model so I modeled the arc in compression for you under load. Are you saying you still don't comprehend what I was trying to show you?





All you have left now is anecdotal tales which imply great strength, and mud throwing at people who have exposed you.

Looks like the pot calling the kettle black. There is a huge difference between a mylar ruler ,standing alone, and a longitudinal welded to hull plate, which you fail to comprehend. Anyone who claims that a mylar ruler in the open is as stiff as a longitudinal contained in steel hull and welded to it, has credibilty problems when claiming to be a "Structrual engineer. " You have been exposed as you were when you claimed that a boat without frames wouild fall apart in four hours , now we all know that Dudley Dix has been designing frameless boats and Wynand has been building them, with no structral problems. I always belived Dudley was to cleaver and considerate to not offer his clients the benefits of a frameles hull.

Like judging the strength of welds visually.
It shouldn't come as a shock to anyone that most welds are visually inspected and there are clear rules and guides on what constitutes a poor weld and why it's poor. You must learn some decent welding and fabrication.

I'm talking about judging the weld by the 6011 slag covering it.

For the anecdotes I think that either the boats were lucky and the tales are exaggerated considerably, or they are just tall tales.

Takes more than luck to survive what the 36 in the photo clearly withstood.

I suggest that you couldn't drop ram or drag any of those hulls in a repeatable empirical manner in ways similar to the 'torture tests' you imply they endured. Take up the suggestions posted by Lyndon and come up with some real examples .

That was clearly done in the photos of the 36 on the beach.

For example if that hull fell out of slings 10 feet above hard packed sand or concrete it would be scrap metal. Nobody would deny that , not even you. Lets start putting some limits on the tall tales.

That was also clearly done in the photos of the 36 on the beach, as well as the 36 which was dropped from slings onto a hard packed gravel driveway in Duncan, and the 36 which pounded across the 30 meters of coral reef in Fiji, as described in Don Shores book "Around the world on Viski."

There's also no way you can 'bash through' 5 inches of ice as you claimed. Bashed over 300m of reef, mmmmm. Lets try dragging it over just one boulder... .[/QUOTE]
She was dragged off by a tug , over 300 meters of reef, as the boatyard in Suva will confirm.

5 inch ice is not considered all that safe for people and cars, yet you claim that it will hold a 6 ton boat which has slid up over it?
While it its hopefully a long way from ice here, when I get back to Fanny Bay in the fall, we can have Patrick video me hitting a log boom at hull speed ,to demonstrate the way the boat slides up over things.
In the low rent district in Comox I ,and Karl on one of my 36 footers realized that when the ice was to thin to walk on and too thick to row a dinghy thru, and getting ashore got difficult, the best way was to slack of the stern anchor and power thru it , leaving a thin ice ccoridor for a few days , which one could get a dinghy thru. Then we power thru it again, often two inch ice. There are photos of this, Next time we'll get a video, Locals there can comfirm seeing us power thru 2 inch ice. often.
Sure gets the hull lcean, down to the keels ate least.

It's interesting how, after years of claiming that frames are an absolute necessity, and any boat without them would fall apart in the first four hours, Wynand now comes out and admits that he has built several of them, up to 38 feet , designed by Dudley Dix, and shows several of his framless boats. He never mentioned this before.
Definitely a turning point in the debate.

 

Will it? Origami; do not fold, spindle or otherwise mutilate.

 

I'm usually a little leery of 'piling on.' And it's my impression that regardless of Brent's rationales (or lack thereof), his methods are quite workable for boats in the size range he designs for.

But I'll say this anyway: back in the seventies, I spent a winter with my dad in Montrose, Colorado, building feedyard fences out of old oil well pipe and sucker rod. That was the epitome of crude, down-and-dirty, crank-up-the-amps-and-blow-the-crud-off-the-pipe welding. Our inspections consisted of taking a break every now and then, to go back and beat on our welds with a double jack (two-handed sledge hammer). If we couldn't break them doing that, we figured they would probably stand up to some big old bull scratching his back on the fence.

We were turning and burning, getting paid by the linear foot of fence, and cranking out welds with no worries whatsoever about how they looked. But if we had been doing work like that in Brent's video, we wouldn't have lasted a week; they'd have sent us down the road kicking cans.

It appalls me to think that people are staking their lives on boats with that level of craftsmanship in them.

 

Don't birchbark canoes have transverse framing? I guess not.

 

You're full of it, Brent. I haven't seen a single post here that claims 'frames are an absolute necessity, and any boat without them would fall apart in the first four hours.'

Don't let me slow you down, though. I would love to see some video of you 'bashing through' hundreds of yards of 5-inch ice.

 

[
If BS care to read, he will see that the price was circa 1991. To make it easier for him since he has some problems with numbers, the following;

Steel went up by factor 3.9 since 1991 in my country.
Labour went up by factor 2.8 over same period.

(2010) to same completion about US$27300, that is with bulkheads, tanks, rudder fitted, shotblasted and epoxy prime painted. How does that compare with BS boats and not to mention the substandard work that goes into them most of the time and endorsed by BS.
BTW, I am a qualified boilermaker and know how to develop and cut plates accurately. I personally disapprove of pre-cut plating for reasons I mentioned in previous threads in this forum.

Alex's boat, late 90s was $17,000, when steel prices were rising rapidly with a lot more deck detail on her.
Steel prices have been up and down like a yo-yo lately.

I don't see any handrails, hatches , and a lot of other details on those boats, which Alex's boat had, which will be hard to weld on thru the paint job.
Haidan got the boat sailing for what you charged for a bare shell.

After years of telling us that frames were absolutely necessary and a boat would fall apart without them you confess to building Dudley Dix designed framless boats to 38 feet.

 

even without apartheid

 

Stop making stuff up. It's a typical 'straw man' argument and anyone who's been on usenet can pick it a mile off.

What I said was that there was no way you could bash through 400m of 125mm solid ice with a 6 tonne boat powered by a 20HP engine.

Here's your original statement:

"I bashed my way out thru 1/4 mile of five inch ice in three days.."

I still say it's total ********. Even if you managed to get out through 125mm of soft ice (which is a lot more possible) you're now saying that you did it because of the bow form and weight of the boat, which has NOTHING to do with the supposed strength of the magical curved form of your origami design.

The 6 tonne weight transfer to the ice could only happen in your imagination anyway because you CANNOT get the entire weight of a bilge keeler on top of the ice unless you use a crane to put it there! Think about it for even one second. The bow slides up on the ice, the stern sinks further in the water because the bow is rising on the ice edge, either the ice breaks or you slide to a stop. Regardless your bilge keels are going to hit the ice edge if it hasn't broken under the transferred weight of the front third ONLY of the boat. I've played this game in a hull form DESIGNED to break ice, with far more power than you'll ever have.

So your argument is still total crap.

PDW

 

a frameless boat can't and will never go through ice without major distortions.
the reinforcement of an even small ice capable, not an ice class which is an other story, is simply extraordinary.
brent your post show a lake of knowledge about ice.
i am a retiree, because i served on good boat (not ship, boat).
on a frameless hull like the one you describe i will be dead hundred time.
(just reading you thread at length)

 

I think dueling is illegal in Canada, with the possible exception of axes in 5 feet of water. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe it is sledgehammers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duel

 

and am calling you both out: vodka and poker, i will leave you both going home in underwear (or perhaps it will be the other way around, i always loose at poker )

 

Please Brent.. take a moment and think about what you are telling instead of that boring mantra.. The whole s*** started bcs you made a claim that 60' boat could be constructed with the very same material thicknesses as your smaller designs...
And please.. can anyone living in BC go and bend a 2" pipe for BS how to make a quote