Origami steel yacht construction

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by origamiboats, Nov 30, 2001.

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  1. LyndonJ
    Joined: May 2008
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    Location: Australia

    LyndonJ Senior Member

    So the baja boat ran aground on smooth sand stayed on the hard for a few days and was pulled clear, it probably bumped a bit going on and off. You tell the tale like it was being dropped 12 feet onto hard sand for 16 days.............come on talk about telling tall tales. Your story grows in the telling too, your earlier accounts said 8 foot surf, wasn't that enough for you?

    Had it really been torture tested as you imply that grossly poor construction of yours in the pics above would have failed for sure.

    Just like you can't go and ram the harbor wall or drop it 12 feet from a crane or drag it across 300m of broken rocks with a bulldozer. Its all crap. The boats were lucky the tales have grown and the conclusion is rubbish :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
  2. bearflag
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    bearflag Inventor/Fabricator

    ::sarcasm::

    Its 60,000 PSI, more than strong enough, multiplied by 2 inches that is 120,000 PSI, more than enough to resist the combined stresses of bashing up and down the coast on a reef....

    ::sarcasm::
     
  3. peter radclyffe
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    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    thanks Mike, it will all come out in the wash
     
  4. spiritbaer
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    spiritbaer Junior Member

    Hello, if that is the quality of work that goes into an origami boat as posted in post #268,the credibility of buying any second hand origami boat is gone. Instead of arguing the faults, why not debate what can be done to improve the structural integrity. Reading through these posts and others there is not much required to improve the structural integrity
    Fred
     
  5. welder/fitter
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    welder/fitter Senior Member



    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/classification/transverse-frame-calculation-32584.html

    Hope this helps, Fred.

    Mike
     
  6. bearflag
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    bearflag Inventor/Fabricator

    That is not a bad idea at all. There are lots of BS boats out there. But I am not sure what could be done to bring them up to the level, if it is possible at all.
     
  7. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Mike

    Thank you for showing these photo's.

    I have to say, i have seen some pretty shocking fabrication in my 20+years of shipbuilding, but this is utterly shocking.

    As noted above. Whatever one thinks about Brent's pathetic weak meaningless sermons about structures, which only highlights his totally lack of comprehension, one only has to look at the “quality” of the construction that Brent is happy, yes happy to provide.

    My first thoughts upon seeing those images was F**K ME!!!

    If all of you acolytes that constantly feel some what chagrined by our “professional” dissecting of Brent of his “oh so wonderful cheap methods”, then those images posted by Mike should be a cause of real serious concern.

    Would you want your boat, brand new, looking like that?
    Would you buy a second hand boat looking like that?
    Would you call that quality?

    ….images like those give small boat builders a bad name.

    Murielle is not a professional, she is an amateur (in the sense that shipbuilding is not her profession). Yet when looking at her website and her images of what she is building as an amateur, she is way way more professional that Brent and his 'work'. Her work stands head and shoulders above the utter rubbish shown in those images. And it is not her daily job either!!! Murielle should take a bow and give Brent lessons in quality. A classic case of all the students surpassing the teacher…

    Not one surveyor I know, and I have known many from DNV, LR and others, non would pass any of the structure noted in those images. I also survey boats as part of my job (naval architect), I would not pass them either. So much for Class approved!

    If all of you building your BS boats are happy with this level and quality of fabrication and structural design, then there really is no hope for you. And no point trying to educate you otherwise, as you have no benchmark to judge this rubbish fabrication against, other than the venom that comes from Brent as a defence. You are putting your lives in serious danger and wasting your money in the process.

    That is about all that is left to say about this…..i’m done.
     
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  8. Brent Swain
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Brent Swain Member

    I remember walking along the harbour at Westhaven, in Auckland, and seeing a newly launched ferro boat at the dock. Later I walked by and saw her half submerged, with a piling run thru her hull and foredeck. She had moored over piling, which had been cut off below high tide line.
    When building ferro boats back in the late 60's. We made some test panels. It only took a few swings with a claw hammer to hammer thru them. You could hammer with a sledge hammer for a month and not get thru 3/16th plate. My 36 has pounded for 16 days in Baja surf and was pulled off thru 8 to 12 foot surf , lifted and dropped every wave for 1/4 mile with no serious structural damage. Lyndon, read this for as many times as it takes to sink in. That could take a while.It hasn't sunk in yet. Must be a lot of ivory there. How do you get a boat off a beach in big surf, without he banging on the beach a lot? As you can see in the photo, the beach is a very shallow gradient,and there is no big helicopter in the photo. Lyndon , it is obvious from the photo that you are the ******** artist.
    My cement boat broke up in a few hours in 2 ft chop. There is no comparison.
    You say the windward shrouds go slack when the hull takes up the load, going to windward. Man that is insulting to other readers on this forum. They are simply not as dense and gullible as you suggest.
    Your hull has a keel under the mast , many fin keelers don't have any keel under the mast, nor do any twin keelers.
    The chines where the mast support pipes attach, are two 5 ft by 3 ft by 3/16th angles . And you say you have stronger centrelines than that? ********!
     
  9. Brent Swain
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    Brent Swain Member

    I've had good hard data from Tom before readily supplied, the sort of data Brent has never been able to furnish, and probably never will.


    All this is very basic and simple engineering. Without doing these calculations there is a very high risk of the safe load being exceeded and the plate being holed either through direct applied load or eventually through fatigue on the 1000 hard 'whomp' off a wave.

    So how many hard "Whomps "off a wave do you think I had in two trips from Tonga to BC , beating against hard trade winds for 8,000 miles total? Less than 1,000? ********! multiply the number of waves per minute , then multiply that by the number of minutes in 80 days.
    Your math says that comes to under 1,000? And with such math skills you say your's is correct? ********!
    How many do you think one of my 36 footers did beating from Ponape to San Diego? Less than 1,000? ********!
    How many hard 'Whomps " do you think my boats have had in 30 years of offshore cruising, including several circumnavigations . Less than 1,000? ********!
    I have far more faith in boats which have proven themselves to this degree, than boats which are simply predicted to be adequate, by such transparently deceptive ******** artists as yourselves.

    In BC, my boats are considered some of the best looking steel boats on the coast. My past clients are some of their strongest promotors. Their only critics are those with zero experience in them.
     
  10. Brent Swain
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Brent Swain Member

    Notice how close the keel is to the tanktop edge, from which one can lift the boat completely, from any point along it. There are eight of them.
    When you see a designer, or builder, who lives in a big house , drives a fancy car and lives an obviously expensive lifestyle , who do you think is paying for it? You, his clients are.
    When someone offers a simpler , less expensive way to do, than what he is conning people into , naturally he will try everything in his power to dissuade people from abandoning his self embellishing scam, and taking a more logical approach. If enough people take the logical route, it will put a big dent in his ability to con them into supporting him in the lifestyle he would want to be supported in, by you.
    Some say there is little difference in the cost of getting a hull together. So why don't they tell us here how long it is taking to get the basic shell together? Why wont they tell us how much it costs their clients to get sailing, or how much it costs them for a hull and decks? Why don't they post their lines drawings here, when they expect me to? Because that would blow their cover as ******** and scam artists.
    Anyone who has bought a set of plans from me recently can testify that they come with a lines drawing. Again ,they keep putting out such incredibly transparent ********, insulting to anyone with a brain, destroying their credibility each and every time.
    And they say "Trust me"?
    Ya right!
    Next time anyone tells you to forget about having a new steel boat to cruise in, unless you are rich, tell them they are full of ****.
     
  11. LyndonJ
    Joined: May 2008
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    LyndonJ Senior Member

    Posting your lines wouldn't make one bit of difference protecting your income. You cannot build your boat from a set of lines it's built from a plate plate origami development method. The only relevant detail is the shape not the final lines.

    You asked to post them here even an oblique shot to show you actually had some. In the past when your marks builders asked for lines or offsets you couldn't supply them. Ergo they didn't exist ergo you aren't being truthful about displacment, stability calcs etc.

    We asked you for even one person to back you up on the pre-existing lines.

    Sure maybe you've gone into damage control and borrowed some from one of your clients but when did you start doing this? A few posts back I imagine.

    But that's a start, now a prospective client can at least get someone to show the real strength of the shape and how you were misleading on the curvature replacing frames.

    Your response to your own fraud is to try and hang it on everyone else. No one else is in your words a "a BS scam artist" you have the unique qualification there.

    Your welding detailing are about the same level as your understanding of everything else. Butchery would be close. Not sure just what adjective to use but you are on the bottom rung of the boat design and building ladder. It's no wonder they go together quickly.
     
  12. spiritbaer
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    Location: Edmonton,Alberta

    spiritbaer Junior Member

    Hello, you have repeated yourself many times on the same thing,how about addressing the quality issue in regard to post #268. These are pictures coming from a video that you are promoting, is that correct? The reason I am asking is because I have been considering putting in an offer on one of your built boats. If that is the quality of workmanship you aspire to,I would have to believe that you are the one that is pulling the wool over people's eye. I have no reason to disbelieve the owner when he proudly proclaimed that he assisted you in building his vessel since his knowledge of welding and steel fabrication was zero, you were the next best thing to slice bread. I do agree with you that they are beautiful looking vessels but then beauty is only skin deep. I am going to walk away from this one or any other Brent build boat, not because of the method,the quality of work that you promote is the deal breaker
    Fred
     
  13. welder/fitter
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    welder/fitter Senior Member

    Last edited: Jul 23, 2010
  14. Landlubber
    Joined: Jun 2007
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    Landlubber Senior Member

    ....seriously, if that video clips is the standard of the build, then the rest is history.....Brent has his followers, and they are happy, leave them alone, everyone has different standards....this certainly is not standard practice, however for the little boats he and his followers build, I guess they are happy.

    Some of the crap that I see here is just as bad in fact, some people are actually happy in their ignorance. God bless them.
     

  15. tazmann
    Joined: Aug 2005
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    tazmann Senior Member

    I have been speachless sense seeing those pictures, I never did see the DVD. I have seen a lot of construction photo's from other folks building and they do take a lot of pride in their work and do top quality work.
    Shame we are all grouped in as doing crappy work because of brents.

    Mike "welder' Now I understand why you told me quite a while back that I should write a book on building an origami boat LOL guess I'm a little slow.

    Brent
    You need to work with a real welder and learn to cut and weld, That is tereble and you give advice on how to do it .
    Step up to the plate here and awnser some of these questions asked without stepping sideways with stories. Your new twin keel setup looks like an accedent waiting to happen, I was under the impression from discussions before that the angle irons went to the centerline of the boat not terminate at the inside keel sides, the way it is there, there is no support on the inside edges of the keels except for the hull skin. Open your eyes, the gussets are not doing any good the way they are in the picture. For safety sake take the offers to get it fixed before anyone gets hurt or worse. I have been trying to stay neutral , listen and learn in hopes that you might do the same, I was wrong
    WAG engineering is ok for your own boat but selling the plans to them to the public is not good.
    Case and point my plans on the 26 showed no cabin beams or longs in the cabin and I questioned you on it and you stated it didn't need any because the camber of the roof gave it great strength. Why is it that after it was all welded up I could walk on the roof and rock up on the ball of my feet and bow in the roof and bulge out the cabin sides at the same time? Allso what would happen if I had left it that way and took a big wave over the top? See what I'm gettin at you do need to address some of the issues brought up on here.
    Now please man up to the plate
     
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