Is It Cheaper To Motor Or Sail

thanks
that change to the master suite also seems to have made a big difference although a fold up master bed is less than comfortable
gotta work on how to stash a futon or incorporate one into the cushions somehow
maybe I can stow it forward in the V berth since both those bench seats fold out into berths anyway I could just keep it there and bring it aft when needed or not as the case may be

I am not entirely comfortable with only having one access door to the wheel house but it did make a big difference and I added egress back to the aft cabin in the form of the aft cockpit door
now I have a workable galley and a larger couch space up top which is kinda the party room anyway right there by the pilot when underway
I could trade out one of the freezers for a head and make the other freezer larger though and that way give guests in the master suite a bit more privacy

 

...build your own freezer box,and put it under something-a sofa,dinette,under the sink, etc

BTW it was well over 4 pints,almost 5, of cider

 

I was planning on it
back in my college days I build my own air conditioner so I cant imagine a freezer is much harder
hell its probably easier since it would be easier to control condensation or at least contain it

 

I think we have drifted miles off topic and maybe since this tittle issue is such a good one I should transfer my posts concerning design to another thread

cheers
B

 

Right Matt.

It is never that easy when we are talking boats and yachts, you know, that I know.
But just a little example how life brings our calculations to fit into reality.

I am just back from 5 weeks of test- sailing the Aegean sea on 6 different (sailing) boats. We had perfect weather for all the time but 4 days. Winds 3-6 Bft., nice sea conditions and sunshine. The engine was running on every single day for at least half the time on the water! The wind was either not strong enough, or from the wrong direction to allow our tight schedule to stay intact. On two occasions we gave up our destination and went to another port.
The average holiday charterer with the same destinations in mind would have motored even more!
In mid December we brought a smaller boat up the Aegean coast. The engine was running all the time to assist making SOG northwards.

My experience (and ask any charter base, the same is valid for them) is, that almost all sailing yachts have the engine running for about half the time on the water!!!
Look at the meters and check the plotters, you´ll notice that engine hours and totally clocked miles of the vessel confirm that statement.

Of course, there are other examples showing the opposite. But when we are talking AVERAGE boater, the calculation goes against the "wind is for free" argument.
Dashews are very much at the higher level of boating, in terms of cost, luxury, complexity, I agree. But they are far away from the upper end.

For nine years I lived aboard (and sailed her round three times) a 50 meter Motoryacht. The average cost and expenses per annum have been almost equal to the time she was sitting in port! The 3550 horses working for over 100.000 miles did NOT raise the annual cost noticeable.
The cost for the same trip on a sailing vessel of similar size (displ.) would have been noticeable higher. We found that out comparing annual op-cost of a much smaller Perini Navi with ours.

To some extend one can downscale these experiences to any size of yacht / boat.


Regards
Richard

 

Was I talking to you in the Hotel Lisboa-Macau-2003?

 

No, in 2003 that boat was already sold, and I was in Macao last time in 1993 or so.

 

A tiny diesel will get you along ,as long as you have sails to fall back on when head winds get strong.. If not, you need a much larger diesel to be able to handle all conditions.
When someone like Dashew or anyone else tells me they can motor accross the Pacific many times, for less than I have sailed it for, I don't feel the need to read anything else such a clearly proven ******** artist has to say.
Yes you can spend more on sails than motoring ,if you are floolish, and gullible about rigging, and sails . Sailing gives you the option of cruising for less, which is not an option for motoring.
Being a designer and builder, I know a lot of cruisers, and know very few, if any, who don't check out used equipment sources before buying new.
We are awash in used sails, including sails for bigger boats , which are often in excellent condition ,for a fraction the cost of new sails, or even the cost of materials to build them.. Only a fool ,or someone with far more money than they can ever use , would buy a new sail without checking the used sail market.
I have a friend who uses cooking oil in his diesel , for free . Hard to reliably refuel for free at Fanning island tho, or most remote destinations. .

 

I got a chemistry professor buddy who's class makes bio-diesel

its really easy and can be made out of stuff you would never imagine

 

My friend just forces the liquid cooking oil thru a filtre. Has been using it that way for years , no problem. Wouldn't count on havng the option away from the industrialised world.
Expect the availability and cost to go up exponentialy, as soon as more catch on.

 

I´m not aware of a single one who is looking for second hand sails. And I know some.
Good luck for Elvström, Gaastra, North Sails and their competitors not all boaters are like you and your community of "el Cheapo" sailors. They live from the "fools" as you like to name them.

And stubborn as you are, you only mention sails, when we compare cost. Are there no winches, ropes, wire and fixtures to replace? You never lost a winch handle? Never broke a cleat?
Come on, wake up! Your preconception is so madly focussed on sailing with scrap, you do´nt see the average boaters habits anymore.
Walk through the marinas of the world, you will notice most owners let the jobs do by service personnel, even changing the lightbulbs, let alone rigging.

Regards
Richard

 

In 40 years of cruising I never lost a winch handle . My cleats are all welded down and of proper size and construction so they don't break. That only happens with your expensive commecially produced stuff. As I mentioned, my rigging wire only cost me $25. My used arco 40s cost me $150 each , used but in new condition.
What fixtures are you talking about?List them . My ropes have lasted me many Pacific crossings over decades, not exactly a major cost.
If makers of new gear want welfare, they should apply at the welfare office, not come to me, or other low income and thus low environmental footprint cruisers.
Your personal environmental footprint is measured by how much money you go thru , so don't expect any environmentaly conscious cruiser to feel guilty about reducing our environmentall footprint, or not squandering resources and freedom, for the fun and profit of the corporations. .

 

I've often thought that we might find a ready fuel source in squished politicians
the fat content is bound to be really high and we have way to many of them anyway, might even qualify as a renewable resource

 

Just curious Brent-
You've been to Haida Gwaii a few times-just wondering (rough idea) where else have you been in BC/Alaska??

Thx

 

Boston

look at this Ted Brewer boat, the salon seating is arranged on a pedestal. That is what I was referring to.



Regards
Richard