A cape Horn vessel

I have a 1950 gunter rigged motor sailor designed by Arthur C Robb and built by AH Moody & Sons Ltd. along the same size and lines. For sale as a restoration project.

 

The cape horner is going live at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtxushUOurE

 

Lots of things make a design suitable or not.
I'd be interested in things like rudder profile, coachhouse design, rig design, and interior layout which is important for blue water cruising .

where's the prop going if you have one ?

To comment constructively you need to show the lines and a few figures would be nice related to motion, safety and comfort eg:
Cp
GM
G-Z curve half load
gyradius

You bought this as a bare hull?

 

Hi Mike! No I've build it from scratch. all the movment calculations have the boatdesigner done for me. This bluewater voyager will be build with "Lloyds regulation/ spec."
If you like advise me about rigging?!
prop. is going out the rear/ into rudder profile. (yes here some parameters to take consider off)
coachouse design??? yes please. Cpt. Hakan

 

and here's another one from the inside
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWVdn14zccg

 

"Speed is safety" - Vito Dumas (1900 - 1965).

This hull shape is good for cruising in medium conditions, but when you really need to go fast upwind to save yourself from reefs, or go fast downwind to escape from breaking waves, I would not be on the deck of your ship, honnestly speaking, especially if you put a square sail on it instead of Marconi rigging.
It is like comparing a 1930's car with a modern one, and trying to go on highways and arguing that speed is not a good idea. You only go on highways with this kind of machine when you have no choice, and it is everything but relaxing.

 

Vito Dumas' boat was the slowest boat you can find. It is of common knowledge.
I really wonder if you have some experience of bad weather, not for an hour, but for day at a time, when after a week, the noise the motion, the difficulty to sleep, make you tired. Speed? this at that moment not the thought, nor the right moment.
As for the comparison for car, please be serious. The sea is not a road. I hope you know that. It is infantile.
I don't want to be on deck of one of your boat with you design philosophy.

Daniel

 

oki doki... Will not get into an agument (again!) but thanks Daniel for standing up!!!
SVio.about vito Dumas and speed = It's relative!
one of and the most dangerous thing while at sea is land. (Yve's). = keep distance!

 

Dear Daniel, I'm not sure you fully understood my comparison.
And why being so aggressive ? It hurts you personally ???
Be confident - I will not invite you on my board after this kind of introduction.

I'm not talking about theory - I'm talking about real experiment with different kind of ships in storms faced in Biscay Bay, in Mediterranean Sea, and northern Indian Ocean, including a direct hit by rogue wave and complete capsize of 60' boat, with all family on board.
Here you're very happy to be on a modern ship with a deep and heavy keel that will put everything upright within 15 seconds.

Speed and ability to avoid direct hit from breaking waves is the only issue when you are really in a mess. Facing them would have been suicide, and the real escape is surfing downwind, slightly faster than waves, and try to avoid as much as possible "white" waters coming from the top. It may be frightening, but never as the noise of a big breaking wave coming over you at night if you have no possibility to move away or turn the ship quickly and try to minimize the impact.

I'm not here to justify my experience, but to give my point of view on a ship supposed to face real conditions in Horn areas.
I really would not sail in that place with a boat not able to make a good heading upwind and not able to escape quick downwind if things are becoming really wrong.

Back to first Dumas' boat, Legh Ist, she was a coastal racer, fast and light. Nothing to do with his last ship or other famous ships like Spray (Slocum) or Kurun (Le Toumelin) which were strong but desesperately slow.

The problem with traditional hull shapes like these ones is their big wetted area and relative lack of speed. Because of that, they have to be very strong to survive storms and withstand wave impacts on deck and superstructure, and then heavier.
The direct consequence is for the crew : more weight means more efforts to produce to trim sails, and in hard conditions it will make a huge difference.

It is easy to witness through 'around the world' solo races events : during storms, fast sailors have minor damage, while slow ones can be capsized by waves with sometimes lethal consequences.

My last words : speed is safety, because it can allow you sometimes to escape from a place before the storm is occuring.
Nobody likes facing a storm if he can avoid it.

 

Sviao. I visited "your site" nice one! I think Lyn and Larry pardys have a better ocean voyaging filosophi than you have, mean this in a good way! You may belive what you want, and so would I.
I would- and I mean this and not being rude- not!!!! enter your design on an ocean voyage. It will wore down any short handed crue in a bad wether situation no matter what you say. Don't like those lightweight, fast going, not looking like a boat, overrigged, carbonfiber... and so on... I have faith in Colin Archer kind of boats, and these were rescuing vessels for some obvious reason?! and at last mention the Dumas "coastal light weight"... hm..Slocums Spray is more my kind of boat!

 

Dear Evantica

Thank you for this cooling down words. I want to hurt nobody, but I would give you part of my 'bad' experience at sea, and what i would do (or not do) for myself to sail with a relative confidence.

None of the ship concept you can see on my website would be my favourite to cruise around Horn head.
For that purpose I would go with a ketch or a yawl (easy to balance), mid-displacement because you always need a lot of stuff with you when you travel far (you could see our Pasiphae boat, sister-ship of Pen Duick III but with smaller sails), and above all other concerns easy to handle.
The hull would be quite narrow compared to these speedy Open 60, but flat enough to be capable of surfing on rough weather, and hull would be aluminium or plywood or strip planking, for light weight, strength and cost concern.
Optimal length would be around 14.00 - 15.00m to have enough space on board and keeping good waterlines despite the overload, and moderated sail surface to delay the need for first reef.
This is a concept I could work on, as a "Raider" sailing concept. Several picts would be always a better explanation than words, especially if english is not my first language

Colin Archer boats were among the best of their time, but engineering made a lot of progress since that time. It could be interesting to take the best of it today for a new type of boat.
Using a design philosophy from early XXth century means accepting the level of risk of that period also. I don't really like this idea, as you could understand.

Anyhow - keep going on this project. This is always a very interesting experience to build and sail far on its own ship, and to have done it with my parents during 5 years around the world I can tell you this is unique !
Good luck, and good wind

 

Interesting! Would like to hear more…

 

I didn’t know that sister-yachts were built. How many?

Sounds quite similar to what I would like to build for myself some day. Very narrow (LOA=15m, Breadth=3m), ultra simple, two - chines steel hull, schooner. Basic accommodation and loading capacity of 9 to 10 meter yacht of conventional proportions, but on much longer waterline, for speed and sea kindness.

I made some sketches a while a go, have to find them ...

 

Only one ship, with special agreement of E.Tabarly who was a friend of my father at that time.

The hull shape was slightly different (bow angle and transom adapted to wood building) but waterlines remained similar, and masts were shorten. A 'fargue' (I dont know the word in english) has been added to increase the height under deck for better accomodation capabilities. Keel, for money reasons, was not of steel and lead, but ferro-cement, with steel bars integrated within the bottom of the structure. It was quite heavy with all equipment on board for a full family (5 people, including 2 babies at the beginning) and with 6 month of complete autonomy.

This is a picture of the ship during our long cruise :





You can see more picts of the ship and building there --> http://sylvain.viau.free.fr/page_pasiphaeFR.html

We have been hit by a rogue wave between Corsica and Toulon in 1987, in Mediterranean Sea.

We were facing an increasing 50 to 70 knts Mistral gale in winter (when all weather forecast were predicting a moderated wind), night was falling, and wind increasing little by little.
The barometer was going down and down (the pin was laying on the bottom of the roller, and on the curve we could see a deep decrease then a long flat line during the night, below 960 mbar). We were sailing downwind, with waves and wind on the hip of the ship, then a huge wave came on the exact perpendicular of the ship with a noise similar to was you can hear in a tunnel when a truck is coming on you.

My father was out, at the helm, and my mother and me in stand-by inside. My brother and my sister (4 and 1 years old) were sleeping in their cabin.
We heard a loud 'Bang' and the ship turned on her side to achieve a complete 360°. All equipments remains at their place inside, excepted one pan which damage the bulkead on the opposite side of the galley.
It tooks less than 10 seconds to roll completely, and the ship went upright very quickly, with hopefully my father still at the helm with his yellow coat we could see through the window in the door.
We suffered no damage at all, which was a big relief, but we increased the sail area to gain speed asap and go faster than waves, and we avoided all other breaking waves during the end of the night.
My father estimated the height of the wave approx half the size of the masts (8.00m), and we have been hit by the breaking part amidship and on the deck. My father told us he had the same feeling than a car accident, being struck aside by a big truck.

 

A beautifull boat! And you were lucky, when rolling over. Good with selfrighning boats in that/all kind of situations.
Fair winds...