What Do We Think About Climate Change

That was a cheesy response. What happened to Global Warming? All of a sudden you quit using the term.

 

Yes, he went from the scientific term of Anthropogenic Global Warming to the term coined by the Oil and Gas Industry, Climate Change. Even after using your term, his argument is much stronger than any anti-AGW claims put forth.

 

Agw

I was firmly w/ you until the statement: "not a single piece of evidence supports the deniers camp." This is not science either. It's dogma just as surely as the deniers have their dogma. Again, and again, and again: "Be forthright about what you do not know."

Ah, enough of this. It's the same old, same old. You all may certainly have the last word in this venue. I find in wearying. I won't be back on this thread.

Can I get an "Amen" anybody?

 

oh funny

"Global warming" is the deniers insisting on an antiquated moniker long out of touch with the theory

keeping up with the times the correct name is Abrupt Global Climate Change or Rapid Global Climate Change


you will have to point out to me where I used the wrong term
so I can fix it

 

and to add on to the nuclear option: we havnt built a nuclear powerplant in 30+ years. We are so far behind in design and technology. We would need to higher engineers from outside the US to come in and advise the best way to build one. We are actually right up there with other countries when it comes to wind energy, we can build our own and install them. Our whole power grid for the US is so old, it needs to be replaced. It was made to handle telegraphs and telephone calls and very little electrical use. Redo the whole energy grid, similar in scope to the Interstate Highway System, it will create jobs and allow for more efficient transmission of energy from places that have power to places that need power.

 

Before posting crap like the above you should be aware that this has been EXHAUSTIVELY covered much earlier in the thread. Silent Spring was a hatchet piece. The assertions made in it about DDT were already known to be untrue by the time of publication. DDT causes no such problems for raptor birds, and never did. If true then the Pyrethroids, which are virtually as toxic and persistent, would be expected to do the same thing. Pyrethroids are used by the thousands of tons every year, have the same 'kill mechanism' as DDT and have multi-decadal environmental persistence (just like DDT), yet the raptor birds are thriving.

Maybe the ban on hunting of raptor birds, and the discontinuance of government sponsored raptor eradication programs has something to do with that. The studies cited in Silent Spring covered the time period when the government was still paying people to eradicate the raptor birds. DDT was shown to be only a very minor factor in eggshell thinning, statistically insignificant. All this info was available at the time of the DDT ban.

Jimbo

 

imagine the amount of copper that would take
yikes
talk about expensive but necessary unless we want to continue living in cave man days

I just drove past the wind fields in Kansas at night with a full moon
wow was that every cool looking
those things are huge

cheers
B

 

Agreed. Long distance power transmission has had its day, now it's time for something better. I think these guys have the answer:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6228923n

Do you know why we don't see more large turbo-propeller (or 'turboprop') commercial aircraft? After all, turboprops save 10-20% on fuel over 'jets' (NO true jets are even flying anymore, they are all turbofans) Do you think it's because they are significantly slower? Do you think that even matters over a short (2hrs or less) flight?

Actually, they are not much slower, if at all, in operation. Large turboprops fly over 300 knots, with many like the Lockheed P-3 and its civilian counterpart capable of reaching 400 knots. The Russian 'Bear' bomber and its civilian counterpart can cruise at 500 knots. So clearly, the lack of sufficient speed is not the reason they are not widely used by the industry.

The real reason is cost; each propeller costs as much as an entire engine! (some even cost MORE than an engine!) To make things worse, its continuing maintenance is also just as costly as the engine's maintenance. In the end, any fuel savings is eaten up by the extra cost of acquisition and maintenance, so there is no savings to be had.

The big wind turbines are no less propellers than those on a large commercial turboprop aircraft. They are very expensive to buy and must be maintained to the same very high standard as a propeller on an aircraft.

Smaller turboprops are economically viable, so there are a LOT of them in service. But propellers do not benefit from the 'economy of scale'. Wind turbines (which are after all, just propellers) suffer the same problem. In the end, we will look back on the foray into large wind turbine power as an expensive and ill-conceived diversion, with NO HOPE of economic viability.

Jimbo

 

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Jimbo

 

...what are you trying to tell us Jimbo, just go ahead mate and say it........

 

the rate of change in co2 is literally off the charts

the rate of change in population is literally off the charts

the rate of change in temp is literally off the charts

the rate of change in methane is off the charts

looks like there are a lot of parameters where the rate of change is dramatically greater than in any other similar period in the past

so if the rate of change is significantly higher than the norm and that rate of change is driven by human activity then how can it be natural variation as compared to times long before human influence

kinda does not work to continue bleating "natural variation" when there is not one shred of evidence to back up the diatribe

cheers
B

 

Dam I love that thing Jim
still uses a fuel but its at least not producing co2
nice
five to ten years eh
might even be soon enough to make a difference

oh
on the natural variation thing
the facts simply do not bear that out
the rate of change is way off the charts in numerous categories
co2
methane
temp
population
all occurring much faster than at any other time in the last say 800,000 years

 

I accidently posted this to the wrong thread
oops

 

There was absolutely NOTHING remarkable about 20th century climate. Warming and cooling events of equal and greater rapidity have occurred in the past, even within recorded human history. The only support for this idea came from the works of Mann, Briffa, Hansen and Jones, and these works have ALL suffered an irrevocable loss in scientific standing due to (among other things) blatant cherry picking of proxy data.

Just a few thread pages back, Guillermo posted graphed data of past temperature trends, which showed numerous warming and cooling events of similar rate and magnitude as 20th century warming, several much more recent than 800, 000 years ago. But, of course you have once again forgotten that. The movie "Memento" comes to mind again.



Jimbo

 

WONDER Boy,

You are once again posting graphs taken straight from MBH-98! I can't understand how you don't comprehend the demise of that paper! You cannot make a credible case for your own scientific objectivity if you keep posting from MBH-98 as if this were a credible source.

Jimbo