America's Cup Disaster

While the CONCEPT of the winged keel may not have been Dutch, the ACTUAL SHAPE of the keel on AII may have been. At least that is where the preponderance of evidence seems to point.

On the other hand, wasn't the designer of the losing American boat also Dutch?

 

so you are admitting it was a wing
otherwise known as an appendage in a world were appendages are not allowed or weren't until then

DC is an enigma but he does know how to sail

If they comity is going to throw the rules to the wind then whats wrong with a cat?

in 83 it was still thought that a 12 meter boat was a 12 meter boat once it was established that it wasnt then all the fins and wings and multihulls started showing up

this is exactly the argument that was made and lost and led to Denis going with a cat
which won in 87

go Denis

A lot of truly talented people have limited social skills, as well as some truly untalented people, who's names will remain unmentioned and who's posts with continue to be ignored. I am however curious Paul if you would elaborate in what way the events I have depicted are somehow inaccurate. Old Denis went ballistic (not in front of the camera's of course, well at least not completely ) the way I heard it and thats from folks who where "in the room", the same room that has had security ever since.

cheers
B

 

Still incorrect.

 

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Thats not true in the context of lifting hydrofoils that reduce the displacement of the boat they're attached to. ORMA tris pioneered the curved foils and the foils on those boats lifted up to 70% of the boats weight.
Alinghi used foils that lifted very little but USA had foils designed to lift a substantial portion of the weight of the boat. Entirely different than anything ever used in an America's Cup and just the begining!

Congratulations to Team USA/BMW -Oracle!!

 

I'm confused.. time warp or parallel universe where he losed this one..
Anyway my memory is everything but perfect so I peeked http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_America's_Cup

 

I don't understand your message.

Are you agreeing with the other poster that DC won back the cup in '87 with a catamaran? If so, you are mistaken.

If you are agreeing with me that the other poster has it wrong, then you are correct!

 

Unless a foil is perfectly vertical (90 degrees to the waterline on the roll axis), there is a vertical (upward) lift component generated. Think about it. Nothing is a simple as you think.

 

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Its certainly not a question of simplicity or what I think: it is about the FACT that USA's curved foils were designed to lift a substantial portion of her weight contributing a lot to her overwhelming victory-a victory of design!
Nothing like it has ever been seen in the Cup! Alinghi's foils today were slightly angled and also contributed some vertical lift when the boat was heeled-but nothing remotely comparable to the vertical lift from USA's foil(s).
Spectacular technology and spectacular racing-I trully hope that future Cups will see more of this technology.
And forum members should be aware that one of our own members is the man in charge of THE WING-Tom Speer( with Duncan Hubbard and others).
I say congratulations to all of them and thanks for showing the world the highest level of sailing technology ever seen!

 

I join your congratulations to mr. Tom Speer. That wing sail is absolutely magnificent and has given BMW the power which will ultimately make the difference.

As about foils, it appears to me that Alinghi's foils are not just "slightly angled" but are curved nearly as much as BMW's and follow the same design philosophy of combining lift and lateral resistance:

 

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Slavi, great pictures! Alinghi has foils like the ones in the picture but they didn't use them today-maybe they will on Sunday....
http://www.americascup.com/en/multimedia/gallery/index.php?idIndex=51 check the pictures here-if I did this right you should be able to see the straight boards Alinghi used today... You have to use the arrows in the upper right corner to scroll thru the pictures
More shots of the straight boards from today: http://www.alinghi.com/en/news/news/index.php?idIndex=200&idContent=22119

 

So, the Swiss said they were over-powered for much of the race. Looks like the biggest difference is the beam of the tri in comparison to A5. Water ballast didn't work. It made not one bit of difference whether they had it on board, or not. The tri pulled away on the downwind and Alinghi dumped the water.

Alinghi exhibited a lot of hobby-horsing and some of that may be corrected with the S-foils, but it remains a big problem, even then. Just can't magically make the boat a whole bunch wider by adding big bunches of killer water weight to a boat that is supposed to be thriving on its so-called weight advantage.

No, these guys have a lot of serious problems and they don't have the time to fix them. They'll be just as vulnerable in the pre-start as they were today. The tri turns more quickly.

Dinner for VPLP must have been delicious tonight. They've managed to suck almost all the air out of the room in which Ernesto sleeps.

 

God created Man. Then some sea-lawyer of an angel complained about appendages so God create Woman. And the problems continue to mount ...

 

VPLP? Wasn't it just a couple of weeks ago when BMW-O was pooh-poohing the comment that their boat design was based on French technology?

 

There was a period about a quarter way through the beat when BMWOracle came down (after showing devastating windward sailing) onto Alinghi and while doing that Alinghi, for one time during the drubbing, (aside from leading across the start) A5 was holding her own. Then of course that magnificent tri just climbed away again. But I would like to know what was going on then, did EB hand the helm to Loic Peyron for awhile ... or what?

 

Spithill addressed that in the post-race. He said they had removed the jib and it took a while to re-mode and get things rolling again.

If that's the time frame you are talking about, that is the BMW-O explanation.