The Controllable Pitch Propeller, a summary.

Ähh,

may I ask again? Are you trying to pull my leg?

THERE IS NO WORKING ENGINE LOAD GAUGE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD, AS THERE IS NO MPG METER!

There are a few instruments telling the knowledgeable engineer (or boater) what the present tendency may be, but that was it.

In case you try to spill your nonsense the next time here, be sure I will not reply, except with violence!

Regards
Richard

 

Here's a photo of the some of the gauges that dont exist ( well in Apex's 1970's world anyway)

 

<moderator note: I've split posts from this thread to http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/pr...peller-lower-power-electric-motors-30856.html to try and keep the discussions from interfering with each other >

 

as for MPG on water...you must be pulling our legs

Every EFI engine outboard, inboard petrol and diesel say over 100hp comes with either std or accessory fuel computer which will read any scale you like.

If you buy a small boat these days many come without fuel tank gauge as they know the outboard you put on it will come with a multifunction gauge where you tell it your tank capacity and it will then tell you how much fuel left, hours to empty, how much to refill with, lph.gph, mpg, lpkilo etc etc.
My brother in law has a ski boat with a Honda 150 ( gutless wonder) and it is amazing how accurate that is when you refill and the gauge tells you how much to put in.

If cars had these in the 80's what's the big deal on a boat ( once they became EFI that is)
Almost all chart plotters these days will connect to any can bus engine and give you this data
For Mercury equipment you have to use theirs or garmin ( I think )as they went on a their own re can bus protocol.
I'm sure with outboards you can probably get this down to maybe 50hp as a guess, before I check that is.

Have you not been on a pleasure boat built in the last 10 years?
GM had this in the 80's on their 2 stroke diesels as they pioneered EFI diesels.

Here's some reading for you www.floscan.com
they have been in business for at least 30 years

 

LOL,
I've been using a flowmeter for quite a while. Coupled with a gps it gives you a pretty accurate indication of fuel consumed for distance traveled. But Apex is right, on my little boat it is calibrated as KPG not MPG.

 

Tolly
Sure you will appreciate once you have the data you can display it in whatever units you choose, if yours is a dial, ok fixed but if a digital display you can choose anything.

Sometimes when we are near an offshore installation we dont use lat long degrees and minutes we use meters to 3 decimal places from a northing and easting that the platform/surveyor gives us, and alos the zero point.
the DGPS is still giving the postion its just we read in mm on the display
All our kit switches over and yes the numbers are enourmous.
Surveyors think the world is flat and anything out to sea is a distance from land.
It is much easier to use once you are on location
Cheers

 

Well I don't think my tech is as good as your tech! I am certainly pleased to be able to find the buoys marking my gear in the dark though! Mine is digital, the flowmeter, from New Zealand I believe. The gps is japanese. I set mine to knots.

What is the nature of your activity that requires .001 accuracy? You can probably measure movement when you're tied to the dock. I'm guessing you're speaking of oil platforms.

 

There is certainly some truth to:

‘if you can’t measure it you can’t manage it’.

 

Tolly
at the moment the DGPS is averaging an estimated position error EPE of 1.2m metre so thats as good as we can be maybe down to 1m but rarely.
The surveyers work in mm so all their data and instructions to us is in mm but as you say with the current set up the vessel cant be that accurate if we are only using DGPS but when you add a couple more position fixing systems then we can be much more accurate but only once on site as the other systems are fixed either on the bottom or a platform.

So if they sent us into the middle of the sea to drop something we could only do it accurate to say plus or minus 500 - 700mm on a good day or should I say the DP system would be telling us we are hovering around a 1m circle at best and can be 1.4m on an average bad day.
Who knows what is happening on the bottom unless there is a beacon down there.

So the answer is we cant be accurate to the mm but as far as a surveyor is concerned he is on a building site and thinks he can.
I guess after the first bit of kit is dropped on the bottom that sets the position and everything else is put in relation to that.
I guess if you were on a large barge lifting things weighing hundreds/thousands of tons to he bottom and it had to connect to something mm's would be important

The clients also install other systems on board that do position fixing that we can see and also sends our postion back to them so they can tell us to move before we even know we should move.

They will also supply a drawing ( couldnt call it a chart) in metres ( usually with scale of 5mm to the metre) that will have all the installations and sub sea etc drawn in.
We have a perspex cutout of the vessel with crane swing etc to scale and play like kids to work out where we can fit and what you can do.
You really need this in 3D as the depth for umbilicals etc comes in to play so we make our own profile drawings of things like if we are here can say an ROV get to there without us moving etc which way will the stream pull etc etc.
You can understand now why the meters are the way to go for this.


I am aware there is another method of differential data for GPS called XY or something ( A Norwegian with bad english was trying to tell me) that does pull the error very small but is very expensive to receive.

As for navigating with northings and eastings forget it.
degree's minutes and seconds and miles and feet is the only way to go

I like that one jonr...

Cheers

 

http://www.lemag.de/
how to collect enough data from an engine to determine power output.

They can also supply you with shaft gear to actually measure it like a brake dyno.

One other piece of data that you can collect but I've only seen it on large engines is turbo speed.
All things being equal and new you can calculate the air density by the rpm of the turbo as rpm goes up when density goes down.
Thats just another graph for the computer to look up and find where you are.
In the photo I posted above the turbos were doing about 9000 rpm..slow

 

I have a mate that does shaft power testing on large engines.

He told me on the newer electronic engines, when on sea trials the manufactuers technicians can always say, yes we have x power and he says they are never wrong, how?

If they have all the parameters of an engine, mep, egts, boost, fuel flow, blow by, water, oil temps, ambient air temp and pressure, turbo rpm the figures slot into the computer that says you must be making x power as there is no magic to losing or gaining power less splitting hairs over the calorific value of the fuel so you must have x power.
The cylinder pressure sensors also graph time, crank angle to pressure so if there is a problem with fuel or valve timing the computer will tell you its not normal.
This stuff is not only for big engines, I know some guys that run graphing cylinder pressure sensors on their racing outboards.
www.tfxengine.com
fitting this kit to an outboard is easy, fitting to a 4 stroke that wasnt designed for it could be difficult to say the least.

So add this to your CPP installation and you can know exactly what is going on with your engine.
I'm sure in a few years cyl pressure stuff will be the norm on electronic engines.

The EPA in the US is trying to mandate that car engines flash a warning up if there is just a single missfire.
The manufactures have said no way but are working on it some trying cyl press and some by monitoring the spark plug voltage curve.
Whatever the result it will be a great step in tuning and monitoring of engines

 

That gauge to the right is for a self adjusting prop! We do´nt talk Gori or Autoprop here.
For what would you need a gauge telling you the pitch? The lever shows very clear and reliable which setting you have!
Do you have a gauge telling you the gear is in astern or ahead?

Of course electronics can tell you a lot, and some programmes even calculate consumption on a more or less reliable base.
But I was not aware we are talking megayachts here.

There IS in fact a gauge telling you the tendency on engine load, I mentioned that more than once! A pyrometer measuring the EGT! But it is possible to be misinterpreted.

What do you think? I am not using the boats and yachts I produce?

I am out of here, the thread was successfully ran into drivel with your stubbornly repeated nonsense.

Congratulations.

 

Whats to calculate you read speed distance from GPS and fuel consumed can be directy read on any size engine with cheap simple equipment.
who would own a boat today without fuel flow information when it comes standard on so many engines now?

What exactly are you building Gulets with the worlds last supply of mechanical injected non compliant engines?

 

You turn barefaced mate!

A short look at my Gallery would give you a idea about at least some of the vessels I build.

 

Mark

there are some more questions from the CPP manufacturers:

1. What is the estimated (top) speed of the vessel?

2. What type of fishing vessel, will there be any heavy load conditions i.e. trawling?

3. Any classification?


Please let me have the answers.

Regards
Richard

and a comparison provided by Helseth as attachment