stability with speed

Discussion in 'Stability' started by griff10, Aug 30, 2009.

  1. nyalex
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    nyalex New Member

    What can I say, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, basic law of physics.
     
  2. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    That would be a full weekend of reading and comprehending. So, you did´nt.

    Motoryachts are not necessarely less comfortable in a seastate than sailing boats though the average, fat trawler is, yes.

    It is not just that the sailors get lazy when growing older (there are electric and hydraulic helpers available), they get experienced too. They notice that they run the engine far more than expected and welcome. And then there is a conclusion, a logical one!

    and let me reply to your mail here:

    You misunderstood! I like passagemaking, that includes the higher latitudes, you prefer the barefoot route (like 99%)

    Fuel polishing is handled a hundred times in different sources on the internet.

    Do some legwork yourself!


    I did elaborate on the sail vs motor topic, and you would have found a exhausting article about it at Dashews homepage if you would have read it!

    I am not willing, and feel no obligation, to provide a free "Tutorial for the prospective circumnavigator" here!

    Of course I have pictures of my former boats, but I like to keep my anonymity and do´nt post them.

    If the intention of your mail was to get me a bit upset, I can tell you, it worked!


    A last question:
    how did you choose a NA, not knowing which sort of vessel you require? None of them (as far as I know) is equally good in all camps.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  3. nyalex
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    nyalex New Member

    No, Richard, it was never my intention to upset you. I did look at the link, I am a very fast reader, elite ivy university, remember? And I do not work all day, I own companies that are managed, my stock market invesments and trades are longer term, I am not a day trader, so I have all the time in the world all day and all year long. That's how I like it and that's how I set it up. I don't want to say I am a genius, but I can beat any computer in chess on hardest level. If anyone interested, ask me, and I will tell you how. I do a lot of my own research on internet and other sources, but it's good to get personal opinion from an experienced sailor as well. If you do not wish to share any advice, that's fine, there are other sources and you have done more than enough already, I truly thank you for that. The good news is that I decided on my boat. Sailboat, staysail schooner, Van Dam Nordia makes one, 85 classic schooner out of aluminum. However, as you, Richard, pointed out, that may be too big, so I will see if I can downsize it to 50 or 60 feet. My naval architect from France will do all the drawings. Now just comes a task of how to install all modern systems on it, my personal options, and minor modifications to design to have the right look. It will be one of the most beautiful sailboats when I am done. Thanks again to all of you who contributed and I hope sailors continue to share information with others, I know I will when I become an old and experienced sailor. I am also an expert in martial arts, aikijutsu, kenjutsu, ninjutsu, and aikido. I trained police/correctional officers, FBI agents, and Navy SEALs. I even trained West Point cadets, they had their own jujutsu instructors, but somewhat inferior. Anybody who knows me knows that I am a stand up guy, and I do no lie and I do not like to be accused of lying. I have no need to lie, to anyone for any reason. Buddhism is a good religion, one of the reason I do business in Thailand and spend a lot of time there. Patience is one good thing that everybody should learn.
     
  4. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Thats a proper yard, no doubt about it! And the 85´is a boat capable of what you have in mind. Right off the shelve.

    But you would need crew (at least two).

    Installing modern equipment in a old "shell" is not rocket science. Every NA worth the salt can do that.

    Do´nt go below the 55 to 60´ you will regret!

    I know the tales, that almost all on the barefoot routes are looking for something in the 44 to 48 range. Some even smaller.
    But these people live on a budget, some on a tight budget! That dictates their "dreams" and "requirements".
    Any boat below 55´is a pain in the *** on passages. Too small, too much motion, too slow to escape a front!

    65´is the size!

    And van Dam, Gouwerok, Royal Huisman, Holland Yachtbouw, build it for you.

    Never build a boat in France! Better in Nepal! Not that they know anything in Nepal, but they work from time to time! The French are the laziest people in the entire world, so are the products!

    The "clusters" you find in the Netherlands and Germany are the secret behind the quality.
    ALL of them are working more or less together. There is no real competition. The hulls are made at one place for all of them, the cabinetry is made at about 5 places for all of them, and the welders are travelling like a caravane between the places they are needed.
    Apart from Viareggio in Italy there is no other such spot in the world (and the Italians have given up on quality to a certain extend (unfortunately).

    So, you are right in the Netherlands. (would be better to have a Dutch NA too)

    Regards
    Richard
    PS I calmed down soon, though I have a problem to believe that you did "inhale" the Dashew articles.
     
  5. nyalex
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    nyalex New Member

    Richard, you may remember a Steven Seagal movie Under Siege 2 where one smart bad guy leader says: "Assumption is a mother of all ffff ups". I had to read and memorize over 5,000 pages of extremely hard material in just 4 months, with midterms, finals, projects, quizes, etc. And I was running almost straight As. I have 5 specialties in undergrad and grad programs. Philosophy, Chemistry, Psychology, Finance, Accounting. I was pre-med, minors in international business, etc. They didn't play, either. Professors were out of most elite universities. I am also a professional photographer, one of my companies does photo work, so I can look through a thousand photos in a matter of minutes. So, if some couple want to post lots of photos with some text, believe me, it's not that hard for me to read it real fast. I can read Dostoyevsky in 2 days, English or Russian. I speak several languages. Do not doubt my word. Now, did I fully absorbed everything I read? Maybe/maybe not. I added the link to my favorites and I will be going back to it for reference when I need it. Van Dam Nordia stopped making 50s a while back, so I guess you are right about 55 minimum, that's their smallest yacht currently. I don't want you do be upset about free advice or whatever, so feel free not to answer. But with staysail schooner of 55 to 65 feet, I was thinking do I need bow thrusters or I can handle the boat without them? Again, not intentions to make you upset.
     
  6. nyalex
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    nyalex New Member

    Here is how to beat computer in chess. As all know, computer can outthink any human, including Kasparov. So, what I do is view it as a battlefield. I make a V-formation, pawns up front, back up by bishops and horses, and others. Impenetrable. When computer attacks one pawn it's immediately replaced by back up something to hold the line. Then, I open the line in one place only. That is the only place for computer to attack, it's an ambush. Then computer moves are highly limited and it's easy to see it's intentions. I hope to gain advantage of one pawn, then I exchange everything one for one. I end up with pawn and king, computer has only king, my pawn becomes a queen, check mate, say goodnight. Who's your daddy? Me, that's who. Now, computer is very smart, so he will often see this and try to force a draw, and it's very good at forcing draws. My success rate is checkmate I win 35%, 25% I lose my making some mistake, and 40% we end up in a draw. I can destroy any Kasparov/Karpov using the same method. Unless they know what I am doing and prevent me from building my V-formation out of pawns, which is unlikely cause I know exactly how to do that no matter what computer or person does. Use it wisely, grasshoppers. That's free.
     
  7. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    No thrusters needed.

    Learn to make "hard" maneuvres. Hard and bold, you get the junk ito the place. All the "marina barstool kings" are sissies! They do´nt know how to handle a single prop vessel. In nearly 40 years at sea I have had two times where I had to give up my attemp, and one (1) situation where I would have loved to have a tug or thruster. But of course I had to manage without.
    You do´nt need what you do´nt have. (can you change it?) It makes you just think a bit ahead. Not the worst solution for many a problem.

    And no, sorry I wasted my time on a movie at 18 or so. I do not even know what you are talking about. Do´nt own a TV! I am a doer, not a consumer.



    Hmm,
    do´nt play chess. Too aggressive. I did when I was a child, found out that the successful players all had a deficit in personality. Not my ballpark.

    Regards
    Richard

    nono I do´nt believe you want to upset me. I just felt you did not enough of the legwork yourself.
     
  8. nyalex
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    nyalex New Member

    This NA in France specializes in wooden boats, specifically nice schooners. They pass boyancy and stability tests. Some new French requirement, if I understand it correctly.
     
  9. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Not Bombigher / his daughter? Or Patrick Balta?
     
  10. nyalex
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    nyalex New Member

    No, but France has many NAs. Since I am working with him, I have to keep his name confidential at this time. But I was thinking about getting French plans, then Dutch plans. With two set of plans approach the right boatbuilder to see which plans are better or maybe use aspects of both of them since the boat will be of same size same displacement same rig. Like I said before, I just started the process, it's going to take some time, I am not in a rush. And I am only going to make one boat, keep her forever. Just one perfect boat, as to my understanding of perfection. And that offshore racer for fun out of carbon fiber. That's it. That's enough to keep me very happy.
     
  11. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    If it was that easy..............

    I would have kept my first boat, a 48´Swan, a perfect boat. Ah no, that was a sailing boat, and I had no knowledge for singlehanded operation.
    The second was a perfect boat. Ah no, that was a too slow Hatteras 53´and I scuttled her.
    Ok the third was nice. Yes, another 53´Hatteras. But, after a while too small, too much fuel for the mile. I sold her.
    Nahh, then the 4th? Oh yes, a perfect boat! 31,5 meter Lowland, a so named "pocket Megayacht" a real perfect boat! Just not the range I found out I wanted.
    The 5th? Hmmm, she was a nice one! A perfect boat! 33,5 meter Haakvoort, to a Willem de Vries Lentsch design. Absolutely perfect! Except the accommodation, I had to sleep in the basement! I did not like that.
    6th? Oh what a beauty, 36 meter steel / Alu, and main deck accommodation! Full width! (The NA said it does´nt matter to have no walkaround decks, though I was in doubt)
    It was a mess!
    The 7th? All Aluminium, walk around side decks, 42 meter, jets, a perfect boat! Just she was not capable of a sufficient speed as promised! I went sour, the NA ducked for a year, and the yard went bankrup.
    The NO 8? Ahh, what a perfect boat! 50 meter, steel Alu. walkaround sidedecks, accommodation at bridge level, sufficient speed, 5500 miles range, economical cruising speed. A perfect boat! I kept her for over 7 years and made 2 and a half circumnavigations on her.

    But 8 crew!!!

    My next one will be the perfect boat I´m sure!

    Regards
    Richard
     
  12. nyalex
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    nyalex New Member

    Interesting, Richard. If you only had enough for 48 Swan, then got more cash, got 50m aluminum, OK, understandable. However, it seems to me that maybe you didn't have clear idea of what you really needed. What if you knew what you know now, and suppose you had enough cash, then your first boat may have been 50m aluminum, not Swan. The way I work is ... I think about what I want first, exactly. I do a lot of research, talk to everybody, then I do it. Measure 5 times, cut once? Something like that. Although, in your case, probably not a big deal, cause you can always sell Swan 48 for nice money and get another one. It's not like car from Toyota that you buy for $35000 car tax finance charges, then trade in after 5 years for $6000. I am sure good boats don't depreciate that much in value. I always loved sailboats, schooners in particular, so I don't see myself changing ships at all. Believe it or not, I had ideas about my own boat since I was 10 years old. My first trip on a boat and Rafael Sabatini's Captain Blood books. The whole idea of sailing around the world, doing what you want, answer to no one. True freedom.
     
  13. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    The Swan 48 in my days, was what a 100´ carbon racer would be today. Unaffordable for even the upper middle class.

    If your story is true, you are a bit in my situation, just some years later, and at a different age.
    I was a nappy pooper at 23 when I purchased the Swan. But already a well established businessman since 6 years. I was dreaming like you, all about the freedom and peace out there.

    Well reality is different, and was already in my days.

    Hope you get at least a bit of the dream into reality............

    Regards
    Richard
     
  14. nyalex
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    nyalex New Member

    I am not looking for peace, that's not possible, not based on any history books I've red, and I pretty much read most of them. There is always some kind of war or conflict, usually for money, power, land - all the things that make me sick about land. Ocean always appealed to me as free place away from greed and corruption. But ... primarily, I look for freedom and fun. I always enjoyed water activities, from sailing to swimming and diving. Fishing, too. I feel it's time to say goodbye to land and go live on water for a while, maybe forever. I will stop by land, of course, I have a few favorite spots. There is a degree of paradise in tropical Thailand and such. So, I am more positive about dreams become reality, that won't happen by itself, you have to make it, in my experience. But possible. Sea is unforgiving and a large degree of honesty needs to present just to survive it. Sailors are some of the few people in the world I tend to trust, almost completely. Not lawyers, not even my own.
     

  15. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    All not easy,

    if you can afford it they envy that, if you can´t they **** you.

    Have enemies only, you can rely on their behaviour! Friends are what gets you down! They are not what one assumes.

    Clear, fixed rules with enemies make a good and reliable life. The wishy washy with "friends" is what kills you.
     
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