Low price Catamarans

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by SteveW, Mar 8, 2008.

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  1. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 3,003
    Likes: 336, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Buc Buc

    I saw this question in the comments on Warren's blog (no answer yet). Maybe someone here knows...

    " Buc Buc in a Tiki:
    http://gotouring.com/razzledazzle/tiki/tiki.html

    Is the climate in Thailand so much different from the Philippines that chemical treatment in Thailand is not necessary? "

    Angélique.

    P.S.
    " Complains about the same yard as the Buc Buc Tiki.
    http://www.brixtonhealth.com/AndySmithBoatworks.html "
     
  2. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 3,003
    Likes: 336, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Dummies?

    I saw an interesting comment on Warren's blog about electric propulsion on a seagoing sailboat.
    http://naturalhigh-adventures.com/warren-blog/2009/2/15/it-seems-i-gave-*****-something-to-smile-about.html

    Ecolution is designed by Gerard Dijkstra.
    http://www.gdnp.nl/

    Question: are Gerard and Wubbo dummies (like Alik says)? :cool:

    Angélique.
     
  3. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
    Posts: 3,075
    Likes: 357, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1306
    Location: Thailand

    Alik Senior Member

    Another Internet-educated anonymous expert, with 3 posts!
    Do You want armchair with electrical propulsion? :)
     
  4. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 3,003
    Likes: 336, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Answer?

    Your posting a lot Alik, but what about answering the questions in my posts?

    Angélique.

    P.S.
    Are you talking about a seagoing armchair with electrical propulsion? :)
     
  5. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
    Posts: 3,075
    Likes: 357, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1306
    Location: Thailand

    Alik Senior Member

    Introduce Yourself - education, background, seagoing experience, etc., then we can talk.
    Your profile is empty...
     
  6. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 3,003
    Likes: 336, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Education

    I'am getting my education here by asking questions ;)

    Hoping for some good answers :)

    Angélique.
     
  7. I heard yesterday that RB has sold another boat, a low price cat, thanks to this forum. A customer saw the thread and contacted RB. This I heard. Probably not the result that Also Concerned was expecting. Really internet has a strange behavior. :confused: :confused:
     
  8. RB PowerSailing
    Joined: Aug 2008
    Posts: 124
    Likes: 3, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 30
    Location: Thailand

    RB PowerSailing Senior Member

    award from Industrial Department

    Ministery of Commerce has little to see with Industrial production : if you mean the Industrial Department ; RB received an award recently :D

    Departments look at the volume of the exporting produced by a Company ; they don't read forums with anonymous posts ;( i know that this fact can be a surprise for you ), and they don't base their evaluation of a Company on internet commentaries ( real customer don't do it as well )

    Our turnover is growing of over 50 % a year , during the last 4 years .

    i don't say the yearly turnover here , as i am concerned for the blood vessels of Also Concerned :D

    About 'low cost boatbuidling ' : this is the exactly the market we are leaving ; if you can do better then us , there is a niche in the market :welcome .




    ciao

    RB
     
  9. also concerned
    Joined: Sep 2008
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    Location: asia

    also concerned New Member

    low priced catamarans

    Hello Mike,

    Thanks for sharing the information below.

    Do you know if Thailand has a Better Business Bureau ? I know some countries can alert you to complaints against companies in your area.


    Regards
    Also Concerned


     
  10. RB PowerSailing
    Joined: Aug 2008
    Posts: 124
    Likes: 3, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 30
    Location: Thailand

    RB PowerSailing Senior Member

    About Tiki 38 and Mr. Creed O'Hanlon

    Dear All ,

    i just found on another blog this story :

    My friend Creed has had his dreams shattered. Soon after his Tiki 38 'Ahmad Bin Majid' was on the water he started to discover deficiencies and defects that concerned him so much that he refused to take delivery of the boat. He has returned home and I understand that litigation is underway. It's a dire reward for two years of his life and ongoing health problems.


    Interesting ; unfortunately it did not happen this way but as described here below :

    1. Mr. Creed left Thailand a couple of days before lauching his boat ;

    2. Mr. Creed never checked his boat in the water , so how can discover deficiencies and defects ???

    3. Mr. Creed was the happiest man in the world and use to say ( and write ) that his boat was the nicest Tiki 38 of the world . May be an exxageration , but surely well built and looking ok .

    4. There is no litigation ongoing . No lawyers , nothing at all . No Court , no dates , nothing .

    5. He never refused to take delivery , i just found this on the forums . He left after i asked him to pay the final invoice , or ( this is the point ) , to prepare a cashier checque and deliver it to an escrow agent , to show and proove the availability of funds , before the sea trials .

    6. Mr. Creed applied for a position as Marketing Manager for RB . In written of course . All i say can be prooved , in case .

    We refused to hire him , but admitting that Creed's blog provided a couple of customers , but the company policy about the marketing was anyway different .

    7. Exactly after the Company Administrator required the cashier cheque , Mr. Creed hide himself , left Thailand , and refused to answer emails and telephones ( 8 telephone calls to his home in Australia are there to proove it ) .


    Now my final Question :

    If Mr. Creed did not like the boat and was concerned about his construction etc ..

    why he went to book a mooring in pattaya ocean marina , 4 days before launching the boat ??????????? He went there with Mrs. Parichard Turner and spoke personally in Ocean Marina Office ..

    Then , after we required the payment ..... what a funny case , ..... then he discovered that the boat was not safe , not well built , dangerous etc .

    Amazing how a money request can change things ..

    " ***** , you are my best friend ... the best Tiki 38 of the world ... we have to get some girls for taking some shots after the launching ... i love this boat ...." Creed's words .

    Then the invoice , and then the friendship is over and the boat is poorly built . " The best Tiki 38 of the world ..." ...poorly built , unsafe etc .

    But the boat is there to be checked , inspected and ..soon ... tested .

    Everybody from this forum is invited .


    Bye


    RB
     
  11. Herbalife
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: PT

    Herbalife New Member

    pls reconsider wave height!


    was the shark 30m long?
     
  12. propshaft
    Joined: Aug 2008
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    Location: S.E.A.

    propshaft Junior Member

    dummies

    Dear Madam, please read carefully:
    http://www.ecolutions.nl/cms1/?cat=6

    Ecolution develops substantial power during sailing particularly close to hull speed (10 knots, equivalent of 125kW) of which a part can be tapped without imposing significant reduction of sailing qualities. Part of this power is used to drive two large and highly efficient carbon propellers that generate electrical energy, which is stored in a large battery bank. The electric motor can be used in generator mode, where computer controlled electrical load will allow for optimum electric power generation during sailing. The propeller blades are flexible and adapt their camber (curvature) according the function, i.e. generate, propulsion or free run.
    Two (bio) diesel engines provide the comforting backup and will be necessary for the extra heating when being in the arctic. The backup diesel engines are each 80kW.The total energy-system of the ship is optimized according user requirements in which heat pump, hot water, heating heat exchangers etc. assure efficient use of the available energy while maintaining a high level of comfort. Energy usage will greatly depend on the climate. In moderate climates the average power usage is 1kW, which means that some 4 days of sailing can provide a full month of energy usage… The energy-management-system will advice, predict and indicate power-use and -storage requirement.
    A software safety system will monitor all onboard systems and environment conditions (including radar and weather changes) and detect any hazard that requires attention. A modular design of the various systems will allow for updates according the state-of-the-art technologies.


    Question: So Gerard and Wubbo aren't dummies, but Warren is?
     
  13. khunian
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: Thailand

    khunian Junior Member

  14. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
    Posts: 3,075
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    Location: Thailand

    Alik Senior Member

    OK, getting more details finally!
    I suppose Warren is using 3000 system that is 3kW motors (Khunian please confirm). Look at specs http://www.re-e-power.com/files/Spec_30002.pdf
    I read in this advertisement booklet:
    I wonder how can 3kW motor give perofrmance of 20/25HP engine?
    3kW/0.75=4HP only. Something wrong with this advertisement...
    Now will check power requirements for Tiki, please wait...
     

  15. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
    Posts: 3,075
    Likes: 357, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1306
    Location: Thailand

    Alik Senior Member

    OK, here are some results.

    I assume the displacement of Tiki is 4000kg that is quite correct for Creed's boat with some payload. Then, we use Goot series method to predict the resistance (formally it can be used), making some allowance for appendages and hulls interaction. 'Slender body' method gives 20% less power compared with Groot, but reality is somewhere between. I assume propeller efficiency 0.5.

    Taking windage area of this cat 10m2, air drag coefficient of 0.8 (average for hulls, bridge and rig) and head wind speeds w=0...20m/s we can get series of lines for required engines power (SHP).

    The manufacturer recommends continous power at 40-60amps at 48V, that gives us 1.9...2.9kW per motor, so 5.1...7.7HP total for 2 motors.

    Now, look at power/speed diargams where we are in terms of speed, and what happens if wind speed increases. Also please consider that added resistance on waves is not included in this calculations.

    I don't have actual Tiki data in my hand, so this calculation is illustrative but seems correct.

    So main conclusion is: with electrical motors Tiki does not have enough reserve power for heavy weather conditions.
     

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